Community Circles are virtual, consultant-led, supported classes that bring Black women together through every stage of pregnancy and post-birth to share their experiences, joys, questions, thoughts and fears. The circles are patient-guided and focus on social support and building community among participants. In the final episode of the third season, Dr. Diane Banigo, a certified nurse midwife, and Ciana Cullens, a community relations liaison, join the show to share their experiences as consultants leading Community Circles. Season 4 of "Off the Charts" will premiere in September.
Community Circles are virtual, consultant-led, supported classes that bring Black women together through every stage of pregnancy and post-birth to share their experiences, joys, questions, thoughts and fears. The circles are patient-guided and focus on social support and building community among participants.
In the final episode of the third season, Dr. Diane Banigo, a certified nurse midwife, and Ciana Cullens, a community relations liaison, join the show to share their experiences as consultants leading Community Circles. Season 4 of "Off the Charts" will premiere in September.
Hosts: Kari Haley, MD, and Steven Jackson, MD
Guests: Dr. Diane Banigo and Ciana Cullens
HealthPartners website: Off the Charts podcast
Got an idea? Have thoughts to share? We want to hear from you. Email us at offthecharts@healthpartners.com.
Kari Haley:
He's a rehab doctor from Chicago.
Steven Jackson:
She's an emergency medicine doctor from the Twin Cities.
Kari Haley:
Together we're examining the health equity emergency.
Steven Jackson:
Inviting voices for change without the cue cards.
Kari Haley:
I'm Dr. Kari Haley.
Steven Jackson:
I'm Dr. Steven Jackson.
Both, together:
And this is Off the Charts.
Steven Jackson:
Welcome to our show. Today we have a very important conversation that we'll be covering with Dr. Diane Banigo, who's a Park Nicollet community consultant, as well as a certified nurse midwife. And also, we have Ciana Cullens, who's a community relations liaison. And we're going to be talking about Community Circles. Welcome, guys.
Diane Banigo:
Welcome.
Kari Haley:
And welcome back.
Diane Banigo:
I know. Thank you. It's good to be here.
Kari Haley:
Our first repeater here.
Diane Banigo:
It's good to be here.
Steven Jackson:
Like you were saying earlier, you must be special for us to bring you back.
Diane Banigo:
I don't know. I don't know, we'll see.
Steven Jackson:
We'll see after this episode, now at this point.
Diane Banigo:
I had a lot to say last time, so maybe I have something interested to say today, too, with my partner here.
Kari Haley:
I'm sure you do. So first off, I guess tell us a little bit more about Community Circles and what it is.
Ciana Cullens:
This is Ciana speaking. Community Circles are a space that we create, and there's all kind of Community Circles, but it gives folks a chance to kind of connect on a peer-to-peer level and we just kind of act as shepherds to facilitate a conversation about needs around... Or not only needs, but just I think the things that affect the Black experience and how that translates in a woman's pregnancy. So we just create safe space for women to have that conversation and to have that conversation with them.
Diane Banigo:
We always like to add that one of our taglines for IPOW, Igniting Power of Woman, is that care's not just clinical. And so how do we facilitate that? We know care happens outside of the birthing suites, outside of the clinic room and care really should happen where the people are and that's in the community. And so that's why we call it "Community Circles: Sisters in Support." So SIS Community Circles. And so like she said, we just kind of navigate that space so women can show up and be who they are and talk about what's really going on.
Steven Jackson:
Well, how awesome is that? I think about a person going to a traditional clinician's office and if they feel rushed or if it's just a short follow-up appointment where there's not a lot of time to really dive into some of the deeper issues, how many people go home with questions unanswered, issues still unresolved, and no place to go and no one to really express themselves to. And here we have an opportunity to not only get issues addressed, but you can talk to somebody who's going through the same thing.
Diane Banigo:
Yeah, I think you bring up a good point. And I remember when I was here last time, we were talking about the Heart of the Customer project, the Black and post-birth journey mapping project that HP-PN (HealthPartners and Park Nicollet) did. And so I would actually say that your system is one that actually listened. And so our Community Circles were actually developed from a ask of the women that participated in that journey. They really wanted to continue to have some of the conversations that we were having for that project. And so this space is that for them. And a lot of times they talk to us about what happened in the clinic or what happened in their birth. Some of them happened even a while ago. Some of the kids now are what?
Ciana Cullens:
One and a half?
Diane Banigo:
One and a half. And they're still coming to Community Circles to talk about their experiences.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Kari Haley:
That's awesome. I was just going to ask, when do women enter Community Circles? Is it when they, during their pregnancy, how long are they staying on and what are some of the things that they're talking about?
Ciana Cullens:
Typically, women do enter during their pregnancy, but I would say it's open to women throughout the perinatal experience. And so I don't know when they come in, I think it's just being in community with other Black women and feeling like their experiences can be validated. I know that that's something that is often shared, is that it's like the sigh of relief that some of the things that they've been feeling, questions that they've been having about their pregnancy, now they're in community with other Black women and community shoppers and they get to ask that in safe space and not feel awkward or feel like there's a wrong question or there's a wrong response to how she may feel. Yeah.
Kari Haley:
Or ashamed.
Diane Banigo:
Or that we'll give them the right answer. So to answer the question, some of the people that are participants in our circle started in the journey mapping, but because we wanted to expand it to all Black women, we have some people that did not participate in the online journaling. And so we have moms that are pregnant, post-birth and we don't want to kick anybody out. If you still feel like you want to be in this space, then you're welcome. But we just extend our arms hopefully to people that may still be in touch or have some reflecting to do from their recent birth experience.
Steven Jackson:
So it sounds like, and we've already kind of talked about, there are moms that come and they've given birth over a year ago. And then I would imagine you have new moms where their kids are really young, months old in fact. So is there ever an opportunity or is there a thing where there's some mentorship that happens as well with those that have kind of been around the block a little bit? They have the mom thing down, and "When I went through it, this is what I did." Is that something that kind of happens too?
Diane Banigo:
Yeah.
Ciana Cullens:
Yeah, that happens quite a bit. Yeah.
Diane Banigo:
I think it's funny because some of the moms even mentor us. We're the facilitators, but some of the moms that participated in the journey mapping and some of their kids are off in college. My baby is 11, 14. And so we always ask, "Tell us about that. How did it work for you? Because we're..."
Ciana Cullens:
Not there yet. We haven't been there yet.
Diane Banigo:
No. Nope. I can't wait to get mine off to college. But right now, how do we learn from each other? And I'll never forget, we had one of our circles in the beginning we were talking about donor milk. And it was a mom that was still brewing her baby still baking it. And so she was like, "What? Donor milk? What is that?" And so I don't even think we brought it up, another mother brought it up and so she's like, "I'm going to have to look that up." So there is that indirect mentorship that's happening and some of the direct mentorship. And we're actually having an event tomorrow, our first in-person event, Black Mama and Baby Showcase Reunion. And so we're hoping to kind of facilitate some of those connections where people can actually meet in person because we did our thing in COVID, right? And so we only know each other in a box.
Ciana Cullens:
Yes.
Diane Banigo:
And so now we get to really lock arms and be in community space with one another.
Steven Jackson:
Oh, beautiful.
Kari Haley:
Are the women generally in the St. Paul area or how expansive is the program? How's it become?
Ciana Cullens:
I would say it's across the Twin Cities metro.
Diane Banigo:
Yeah. We try to keep numbers, and I didn't bring them today, but Park Nicollet and HealthPartners. And so they can go to any space. And so I would definitely say across the Twin Cities.
Kari Haley:
Oh, wow, that's awesome. And kind of diving in a little bit maybe into some of the conversations people have had. Are there any major themes that frequently come up or things that we in the public space or in the health care space can take note of and say like, "Oh, this is something that often comes up, this is something maybe we need to continue to look at and we need to continue to address?"
Diane Banigo:
Go ahead.
Ciana Cullens:
I would say mental health is a theme that comes up quite a bit, and it's a frequent theme in our circle discussions. Just about the importance of, we termed this phrase, "Crazy has a name." Because in the Black community, mental health is kind of a stigmatized topic. And so to have Community Circles space to have conversations about the importance of just acknowledging that you may have some mental health issues and how that can have an impact on not only your birth outcome but just your quality of life. And so I just remember during the Heart of the Customer study, that's when I really realized that we were doing something special, was the level of vulnerability that women engaged in in circle space.
And that's what sparked... We knew this was something we wanted to share and we're hoping that leadership would be supportive of it. But that's when I was like, "Man, we have to make this happen because women are saying things in this space that they haven't shared in any other space." Some women revealed that they had been engaged in cutting or other self-harm things that they had never spoken out loud to anyone. So I think that mental health is a theme that continues to come up. And so I won't delve too deep unless we want to go that deep, but I do feel like that's something that will always be a theme in our space.
Diane Banigo:
In addition to mental health and just people giving voice to their own demons and things that they keep in the closets and shames, have allowed other women to say, "Oh, me, too." And then you have someone say, "Well my grandma, this is... My grandma dealt with bipolar or schizophrenia." "Oh, well I see a therapist. Well here, let me give you my therapist's number." She's validated, she's a woman of color. She's in the system, she's out of the system. So some of those very organic conversations are happening and they're also telling us that still what we always know, that they want to be heard, that they're not getting breastfeeding support, that people are assuming that they don't breastfeed their babies or that they're being profiled and asked about drug screening too many different times.
And so we continue to promote self-advocacy and we also broker the conversations that we have in community spaces, disidentifying the information and sharing it in our monthly touchpoints with the leadership, so that they can find intentional ways to integrate some of these lived experiences to change their care experiences. And so some initiatives haven't been started yet, but they are listening and we're continuing to make sure that we amplify the things that we hear in circle space so that they know that it's not just what we say, it's Black women, but this is what they said. And so you were supposed to listen to your consumers, so listen, listen well.
Kari Haley:
No, I think the space is so amazing, one that it's a community for women to have together. But also, too, I feel like it's because you have a connection with leadership. It's giving a voice to those women as well and bringing them to the table, which is not something that is traditionally part of health care.
Diane Banigo:
And even just we try to make it generational. We had a mom just say, "Oh, my daughter." Now, she was in our project and she's having babies and she has a daughter that's having a baby, so she's about to be a grandma. And she was like, "My daughter really need to be in this space. She doesn't know it yet, but can I invite her?" And I'm like, "Well, is she HP-PN?" And I'm like, at this point she doesn't have to be. If you know that your daughter needs to be in this space, people are asking, who can they invite into the circle space?
And so we're having some of that internal marketing because they know that other women need to be in spaces like this where they can be free. And so we have really appreciated the honesty and the transparency and the impact that it's making on them that they're willing to reach back. So not only are the systems having to reach back, we always worry about retention keeping patients in. We're having the community bring people in into the circle space, which will hopefully transfer into being into the care space because they think the care space change and we're brokering that.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, I like one of the definitions that we have, is that the circles are patient guided and focused on social support and building community. So you guys are master facilitators, but I would imagine one of the goals is for the group to run itself. People come with their needs and they share and they gather strength and maybe some sort of resolve by sharing. Is that sort of one of the visions of it?
Diane Banigo:
Yeah. I would say it have a little bit of a structure. We have our circle format and we generally have a topic. For example, we talk to Black Maternal Health Week, but every circle is different because depending on who comes to the space, we'll determine what things come up. We talk about infant loss sometimes. We were talking about birth stories and then sometimes we talk about death stories and loss and what that looks like in the Black community. And so we definitely try to have a topic, and then we provide resources related, internal and external resources. And we let them kind of lead the group. And if we see that something is lingering, we'll carry it over. And then we also build community by saying, "Hey, we heard this in our a.m. group, so what do you guys feel about this in our p.m. group?"
So even though they're not in the same time circle space, cause we have a a.m. group and a p.m. group, we still try to make them be one community. The good thing about having co-facilitators in that space is that we pick up on different things, we read different energies, and we see sometimes if I'm focusing on this person, someone else is crying over there. We've even had a mom that didn't identify as a Black mom in that space, and boy did she bring it. And so, it is...
Ciana Cullens:
Oh, man.
Diane Banigo:
Remember her?
Ciana Cullens:
Yes.
Diane Banigo:
So it's just so amazing that the women own the space. And we get to be guest in.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. That's what I like about it.
Diane Banigo:
Yes.
Steven Jackson:
That's what I like about it. You mentioned the word freedom and just having the freedom to discuss the issues of your heart. And I think about the opposite. Imagine if there was no community circle, what people doing before there was a community circle, they were trying to deal with it on their own or maybe they were just trying not to deal and it was manifesting in other ways, mental health that's declining or relationships that are withering. I mean, who knows. So really happy to hear about this. So I'm curious to know, because I would imagine some really personal and really heart-wrenching things come out. Do you ever have to refer out to experts in social services or God forbid, bring in authorities because something, I don't know what's going on, who knows? But do you ever have to refer cases out because of some of the things that are shared?
Diane Banigo:
So I would say we have not had to refer out directly, because the women give the referrals themselves for the mental health providers. But one of the things that we try to create space for is if there are support systems and services within the system to have a show and tell, kind of meet and greet, which is what that event tomorrow is going to be about. So you can see some of the behavior health people, so you can see some of the healthy beginnings people, so that you can build that relationship so you're not afraid to reach out when you need them. But usually what we say, what we share in the space stays in the space unless there is an emergent need. And we will private message someone, be like, "Are you OK? What's really going on? Hold the line so we can talk to you afterwards."
And the hard part about being a facilitator and a clinician is that sometimes the information is going way left. And I'm trying to be in my consultant role, but I'm a collision. I got to be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a way off." And so we try to integrate, even though it's not focused on care, but we do try to integrate some of the science and make sure that people are getting correct information if they are being misguided and have the other women kind of be a soundboard. So we definitely try to make sure that they have connections inside and outside of the HP-PN, HealthPartners-Park Nicollet space. And if you guys don't have what they need to meet their needs, then we're going to send them to the community. And so we do not limit the support that in the direction that we point people into only being in a space. For example, lactation. People are really needing lactation support. And so we refer them to the Black lactation consultant that we know in the community.
Ciana Cullens:
The community has resources that oftentimes may not be within the clinical space. And I think women appreciate the fact that they have us as a bridge and that bridge goes both ways. It goes towards HP-PN, but it also goes towards the community as well. And so I know I've sent some moms or I shared a community yoga space that's free for moms or an exercise group. And women have taken advantage and I've seen women in those spaces. And because we've been on-screen together, you would think because we've only been on-screen together that there wouldn't be a connection. But it's like, "Oh sis, it's good to see you. I'm so glad to be in space with you." So it just goes to show, I think COVID has shown us all that we can connect in different ways. And so the screen has not been a barrier and making connections with these women. And so I'm really excited about tomorrow's event because all these on-screen connections, a lot of them will get to actually materialize in person. And so I'm excited to see what that looks like.
Steven Jackson:
Family reunion of sort.
Ciana Cullens:
Yeah, absolutely.
Kari Haley:
Those are always exciting, that first time when you get to all get together after you've been only looking at each other's faces in a square.
Steven Jackson:
“I didn't know you were a bit tall.”
Diane Banigo:
No or not. Yeah, or not
Steven Jackson:
I was going to say, I definitely don't get that one, though.
Diane Banigo:
But I mean, I think what's awesome about these experiences you ask referrals is that, we are learning, I often talk about village care and circle space. Is that the people that we need don't always have to have the alphabet suit behind their name. Like a yoga, we have the yoga instructors, we have exercise. Some of the wellness, the things that we need to add into our lives so that we can deal with the trauma, medical traumas that we're dealing with and birth experiences that we didn't get to tell anyone about. We need that balance. And so I'm happy that we get a chance to be the bridge, as you said, to some of those other things that the traditional medical system doesn't necessarily support. You may give them a few dollars off their insurance, but are they really going to the LA Fitnesses when they can be in a space where they got some cool music, other women that look like them that can't get in that down dog, but trying anyways.
So it's always amazing when you can just be. I think a lot of people say that, "Oh, come as you are. We accept all." But we really live that. And people can come into the space, whether it be a virtual space or in-person space and just show up as themselves. And I think that speaks volumes, which is how we get to here-
Steven Jackson:
Oh, yeah.
Diane Banigo:
...about the cutting. That's how we get to here. You know what after this group I..." This one lady said at our last circle, we were talking about mental health. She was going to do this post on Facebook about her own depression experience. And so she wrote it all out and then she took it down. And after we were talking about mental health and importance of it, she said, "You know what? I'm going to put that post." Yes. Because your confession so to speak, can keep someone else from jumping off the ledge. Tears. You get goosebumps in these conversations. We're like, "Wow."
Steven Jackson:
I'm sure.
Ciana Cullens:
Yeah. Giving people permission to speak their truth out loud. And I think one thing that's a common misnomer is that pregnancy is this happy-go-lucky experience for every person. And-
Steven Jackson:
It's not.
Ciana Cullens:
...for some women it definitely is that, it's heart, it's hearts and rainbows and sunshine. But for some women they are really struggling that an..., what's the, antipartum depression is real. And so just giving women space to speak their truth and like, "Yes, it's OK. Being pregnant doesn't mean that it's all good. But it's OK that it's not, and you're going to get through this and you don't have to do life alone." That's one of Diane's lines is, that "We don't have to do life alone. We have community, we have support, we have Community Circles."
Diane Banigo:
And it's OK not to be OK.
Ciana Cullens:
Yeah, it's OK not to be OK.
Diane Banigo:
It's OK not to be OK. Now we always talk about what do we do when girlfriend therapy's not enough? We level up. And so does that mean that we connect with someone internal? If you can't get an appointment, do we connect with someone external? You have to talk to someone. And if we need to sit with you or be on a two-way, three-way, when you make that call, then we'll do what we need to do to make sure that you get the care that you need. Even if that means I have to take you to the ER. That hasn't happened in this circle space, but that's how far I'm willing to go.
Steven Jackson:
Sure.
Diane Banigo:
I will walk in the front door with you, and I'm always on the go, I'm in and out. But look, my girl's right up the road, we'll find someone to watch her kids so she can walk in the door with you if it gets to that. And they know that they can reach out to us. And so sometimes even outside of the circle space, they still reach out directly to our, "Hey, what about this? What about that?" So they are really finding us to be trusted messengers and advocates in the community, in and outside of circle space.
Kari Haley:
I mean that's huge, one. But also, I mean, I feel like that just goes to show how much trust that they're putting in you and your words and the concept of this group. And you think about back before modern civilization, we were communities.
Diane Banigo:
We were.
Kari Haley:
That's like how people lived, and women would get together and they would talk about things. They didn't have the Instagram filter of their life. It was real life-
Steven Jackson:
What's Instagram?
Kari Haley:
And I love that people, women are having this opportunity in your groups to be able to show life as it is and be there for each other. I mean, I don't think our modern society generally has that. It is all very much the appointment, let's get our check-boxes, let's make sure we're doing these things. Maybe have a little bit of a conversation about something,
Diane Banigo:
Maybe. About the weather.
Kari Haley:
Maybe. Just the very superficial stuff. But really getting down into what's happening? What are your fears? What are your concerns, actual concerns? People just don't have that space. And you provide it.
Diane Banigo:
And Dr. Haley, and you brought up something, you said filters and it just made me think about circle space. So many times women don't have to put on their face and their hair and all these things to show up. People will come, sometimes I just woke up, or they don't have to turn their camera off because they're feeding their babies. And so we really tell them we want to see you. Now, if they can't put their camera on, they can't put their camera on. But most people will put their camera on because they want to be seen. We allow them to be seen in circle space. And so we can't be in every system yet. Keep...
Kari Haley:
Yet.
Diane Banigo:
Yet. But I think you know, guys are leading the way.
Kari Haley:
Yes.
Diane Banigo:
But every space need to have a similar format with people that are from the community, that are brokering spaces and allowing women to speak truth to life. And then you listen.
Kari Haley:
And being bridges to power as well.
Diane Banigo:
And sharing. Yes.
Kari Haley:
Yes. Yeah.
Diane Banigo:
And so how do we do that? And so even in some of the initiatives that the system is thinking about doing, we keep saying, quietly at first, "Make sure that we create a space for maybe someone from our community circle because they have a lot to say. So it's OK, whatever you're creating is great, but let the community be the soundboard.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. I like what you said about, they want to be seen and not just by definition, I'm using my eyes to see you, but they want to be seen internally. You see who I am, you see what I'm going through, you understand what I'm going through. And I think Dr. Haley talked about trust. And I think if people are sharing intimate things like cutting and these other struggles that they have, they're sharing that you guys are doing something right.
Diane Banigo:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
Because that's tough. And to feel comfortable enough to open up like that, well that's where healing begins. Can't really heal if you hold it to yourself and either don't deal with it or try to deal with it alone. And so what an awesome thing you guys are doing. I'm curious, and we haven't really talked much about this yet, but where do you guys get your passion and your commitment to do this work?
Diane Banigo:
Wow.
Steven Jackson:
That's so important. And-
Ciana Cullens:
You go first.
Steven Jackson:
Obviously, so impactful.
Ciana Cullens:
I'm a slow processor. I got a process. That's a deep question.
Diane Banigo:
I mean, wow, that's ouch.
Kari Haley:
Hard work.
Diane Banigo:
I'm all like, "Ooh."
Kari Haley:
Hard hitter over there.
Diane Banigo:
I mean, but those are the questions that we need to ask, not only of the women that we serve, but of ourselves. Why do we do what we do?
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, what is your why?
Diane Banigo:
What is your why? And sometimes it's a why not or sometimes it's a near-miss experience. I can tell folks a lot of times that I made it through. I am not special, but I have been blessed that my story may have had a happy ending. But how many women... My own sisters have not?
Steven Jackson:
Yes.
Diane Banigo:
And so how do I make sure that we hear all of the endings of the story, so that we can write a new narrative so that we can change and leave a legacy, not like the one that we experienced. And so even if we haven't experienced it directly like that secondary, even tertiary trauma. I think the reason that Black women birth their babies so early, I always say it's because of stress. Their wounds have become toxic, and so they come out because they feel like they need to survive because of stress that the women are internalizing. So there's so many different things, but actually being in community have been my motivation, listening to stories, crying with women, realizing that it's not OK, being told, "Oh, but you're different." How am I different?
I'm no different than the people that you're talking about, but you forgot I was present. And so how do I make sure that we level the playing field and just be transparent and address the things that we need to address? And if I can use space or my voice or my own stories or the stories that I have gotten permission to share, to validate your experience so that we know that you're crazy have a name, it's not that it doesn't have a name. And because sometimes people are experiencing things and they think, "Oh, it must just be me. Something's wrong with me." This can't be the reality. But we create circle space. So you'd be like, "Oh, it happened to you, can you. And oh, I'm so I'm not crazy."
Steven Jackson:
Not alone.
Diane Banigo:
Oh, crazy does have a name. It's called "isms." It's called racism, it's called social determinants of health, whatever you want to call it. We give them permission to speak up and say, we hear you.
Steven Jackson:
Beautiful.
Diane Banigo:
And so to create a space for women to continuously practice using their voice in a safe space, so that they can be more comfortable using their space is sternly. Why not?
Steven Jackson:
Ciana, where do you get your passion from? Why do you do this work?
Ciana Cullens:
Wow. I think I'll bring it full circle to where we started where Diane quoted our tagline, "When women lock arms, things change." So this work is, it's Igniting Power of Woman's or IPOW's baby, IPOW holds this work. And my passion comes because I strongly believe that when women unite, whether as community and being in community with one another, healing happens, change happens. Societies have been built on the backs of women. When change happens, you will nine times out of 10 see women right at the helm of that change. Even when you think about the civil rights movement in this country, that's another topic we won't go here today.
Steven Jackson:
I just think about my mom. So...
Ciana Cullens:
I mean, come on now. So it's the strength of woman and what we do when we come together, that's the engine. But I think in addition to that, the oil is this burning passion that I have for the Black community. So anything that affects us, I want to be engaged and involved. And that's taken me across different populations over my career journey. I've worked with men who were coming out of incarceration, I've worked with single parent families who were going through homelessness. And so I think that that gives me a unique perspective as we sit in circle space with women, because I've been in the trenches and I've heard and seen things that it helps me to understand those psychosocial stressors that our people go through that, to Diane's point, that secondary and tertiary trauma, things may be that I haven't been through, but it makes me more empathetic.
So I know when I see sisters showing up in space and showing up in their brokenness, I can feel it. And I think that that's definitely a part of my passion, is just wanting to be a bridge to power always, wanting to give voice where people's voices are not amplified. And so however, the most high, the divine, as I would say, God, would direct me, this is just one step or one pivot on that journey.
Steven Jackson:
Amen.
Ciana Cullens:
And so this is where I'm at now. I think that it's vitally important work. I feel so honored that HealthPartners-Park Nicollet has trusted Diane and I to share what we thought the women were saying to us and say, "Hey, you know what, we're going to give you this space to do that." So it's an honor and I feel like you guys are leading the work and we hope that we can proliferate it. I mean, because I think not only HealthPartners-Park Nicollet women deserve to have spaces like this, every system that serves absolutely Black and brown pregnant women deserve to have this space as well.
Diane Banigo:
And I think just to close that is that, I think we, "we" meaning the people that are privileged enough to create these and navigate and even sitting in spaces like this where we can have real conversations about what's really going on, is that the circle is so much larger than the person that's sitting in the space. And so we understand that circles are small and large and interwoven. And so when we talk about things, it is not just for the people that are in the space, it's for the community. Because if you show me healthy community, then you'll see healthy people.
And so if we want not to need the health care system, but only for wellness, that we need to start healing at the roots. And that's where the people are and that community. And so as long as there is one, we will continue to always take up space and to ask women to sit in the space with us and families. We know everybody don't identify as a woman, but the people that in our space identify, but we are not going to shy away from our femininity energy and how that brings change if we know that it can have a lasting impact even for the people that may not identify or even to the fathers and to the babies. And so sure we start with the people that show up, but we hope that we have this ripple impact.
Steven Jackson:
Well, I mean you've said it a couple of times, you want to be a bridge to power. Power is universal. I don't think it has an identification. We all need to be in empowered to be successful in whatever circle we find ourselves in. And I'm ready to say amen and take up a collection.
Diane Banigo:
Great.
Kari Haley:
Finger snap here.
Steven Jackson:
You guys are preaching, man. Listen, thank you so very much on behalf of all the people that you guys have touched and will continue to touch. And I look at something like this as there's a need, see a need, meet a need. And I love what you said about, it's not really the "why," but it's the "why not." Teach my kids. If you see some junk on the floor, don't walk over it because somebody else will get it.
Ciana Cullens:
Come on.
Steven Jackson:
Pick it up.
Diane Banigo:
Pick it up.
Steven Jackson:
If you see a need in the community, get together with somebody with a common goal or common passion and do something about it. Be the change that you want to see. So I thank you guys for putting your money where your mouth is and really impacting change the way you have.
Kari Haley:
Yeah. And I think just probably as a woman, thank you for creating a space for women to be able to be vulnerable, to share their fears and share their deepest secrets, but also to build community and build each other up, which I think is just the icing on the cake for what you're doing.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah.
Diane Banigo:
Yeah. We're better together, and we're not always up. And so when we are down, we'll be there to cheer you back up, right? And to be that buffer because we just know we're better together. And when women lock arms, things change. And we truly believe that and that's what we stand behind. And so thank you for allowing us to talk about what we do and to continue to serve the community in this capacity. Because it is definitely service.
Steven Jackson:
I want to close by saying one last thing. It just hit me with what you just said. The theme for our George Floyd celebration this past, or I guess, Memorial Day weekend was, I think it's ubuntu, which is "I am because we are."
Diane Banigo:
"Because we are."
Steven Jackson:
And so I just want to just kind of drop the mic on that...
Diane Banigo:
Ubuntu.
Steven Jackson:
... and keep doing it, guys. Thanks so much.
Diane Banigo:
Thank you for having us.
Ciana Cullens:
Thank you.
Kari Haley:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
Off the Charts is a production of HealthPartners and Park Nicollet.
Kari Haley:
It is recorded by Jimmy Bellamy, with creative by Peggy Arnson, Tina Long, Tim Myers and Jeff Jondahl.
Steven Jackson:
Production services provided by Matriarch Digital Media.
Kari Haley:
Our theme music is by Ryan Ike.