Nicole Wojowski, a registered nurse at Regions Hospital, joins the show to explore the complexities and often misunderstood international adoption process. The discussion delves into myths and misconceptions. Nicole shares her personal experiences as an adoptee and highlights the challenges and triumphs she has faced. The conversation also covers the impact of microaggressions, importance of acknowledging trauma and unique journeys of adoptees.
Nicole Wojowski, a registered nurse at Regions Hospital, joins the show to explore the complexities and often misunderstood international adoption process. The discussion delves into myths and misconceptions. Nicole shares her personal experiences as an adoptee and highlights the challenges and triumphs she has faced. The conversation also covers the impact of microaggressions, importance of acknowledging trauma and unique journeys of adoptees.
Hosts: Kari Haley, MD, and Steven Jackson, MD
Guest: Nicole Wojowski
HealthPartners website: Off the Charts podcast
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Kari Haley:
He's a rehab doctor from Chicago.
Steven Jackson:
She's an emergency medicine doctor from the Twin Cities.
Kari Haley:
Together, we're examining the health equity emergency.
Steven Jackson:
Inviting voices for change without the cue cards.
Kari Haley:
I'm Dr. Kari Haley.
Steven Jackson:
I'm Dr. Steven Jackson.
Both, together:
And this is "Off the Charts."
Kari Haley:
Hello and welcome to another episode of "Off the Charts." Today, we are going to be talking about a subject very near and dear to my own heart. We're going to be talking about breaking down stereotypes about international adoption. Our guest is a registered nurse at Regions Hospital, works in the post-anesthesia care unit, or also known as the PACU, in the surgery recovery area. So, Nicole Wojowski, welcome. Thank you for being here.
Nicole Wojowski:
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited.
Steven Jackson:
There are a lot of, I'm sure, misconceptions, myths, ignorance regarding adoption, let alone international adoption. Just diving right in, what are some of the myths that you feel are pretty prevalent, and need to be really uncovered, and I guess fixed and applied truth to, do you think?
Nicole Wojowski:
First and foremost, I am very frustrated that the adoption narrative recently feels like it's very focused on the happy family. You have an adoption, everyone's happy, happily ever after. Super. If that happens, great. However, if it doesn't, all families have problems in their own ways, that doesn't mean it's wrong. That doesn't mean the family's broken, that doesn't mean the child is broken. Families still need work, regardless of if their biological, step families, adoptive families. I think that a lot of times the agencies, different support groups, kind of say, "Oh, you'll be really happy now you have a baby. This is what you've always wanted. Dreams come true." That can happen, but that doesn't mean it's an automatic given, and it's not the child's fault if it isn't.
Kari Haley:
I think, as being also an international Korean adoptee, I think that there's a lot of different narratives out there, and every adoptee experiences things differently.
Nicole Wojowski:
Yes.
Kari Haley:
I think that maybe leading a little bit into, for you, maybe some of your own experiences that you've had, because I think that being able to tell our story is something really powerful, and something that adoptees don't always get to do necessarily.
Nicole Wojowski:
Right. I think it's a privilege to be able to speak up and draw attention to not necessarily a cause, but this group of people. I think international adoptees, specifically interracial adoptees even, it's a group that's overlooked, unfortunately. I remember meeting with someone in the past who told me, "Oh, you're Asian." I said, "I'm an Asian American adoptee. Those are very different things." I'm not white enough to be white like my family. I'm not Asian enough to be Korean like my Korean friends. I'm somewhere in the middle. I often find myself drawn to other adoptees, other people on the outliers of certain social groups. We feel like we have more in common. What we see ourselves in the mirror does not match how other people perceive us and treat us in return.
Kari Haley:
How do you think that plays into the field of medicine? Obviously, you work in medicine. I mean, I will share that the number of times that I have had to say that I don't know my family history is rather frustrating in the age of electronic medical records, where it probably should just be there that I am an adoptee and I don't know it. But there's other things too, so can you maybe chat with us a little bit about how do you feel, especially maybe an international adoptee situations in health care are different than other situations for people?
Nicole Wojowski:
I just want to say first off, the first time I saw on a health history form, family history unknown, no explanation behind it, I cried. Because it was the first time I didn't have to go through and check unknown, unknown, unknown down the entire list. Things have changed. I've done a search and reunion, but regardless of that.
To me, it comes in handy sometimes in a weird way. I feel like I can code switch very easily for my patients. Unfortunately, I have a lot of patients, "Well, where are you from? Where are you really from?" And I say, "What does that have to do with my ability to provide care?" "I'm from around here", I say, "I'm from the Twin Cities. Oh yeah, my grandfather was a dairy farmer actually here in Dakota County. Can't you tell by my accent I'm from Minnesota?" And the number of people who double down and are like, "No, no, no, you're clearly not from here."
I try to make them feel embarrassed about it, to see that it's awkward and the question they're asking is indeed inappropriate. I'm frustrated for other coworkers I see. I try to stand up for them when they're being belittled, or thoughtless of, or treated differently. I say, "You have the right to the same amount of respect as every one of us. There's no difference just because of what you look like or where you're from."
Steven Jackson:
Well, a couple of questions. Do you feel like there is trauma associated with this topic? And do you have personal trauma associated with this topic?
Nicole Wojowski:
I personally believe adoption starts with loss, it starts with trauma. Going through nursing school, I had a very, very hard time with the mom, baby, labor, delivery, all that, because they say, "Oh, the mom and the baby develop such a close bond, and you can hear their voices, and they're surrounded by the scents and the sounds of their new home once they're born. The skin-to-skin contact is vital to creating that bond. If that mother doesn't bond with the child, there's serious problems."
But not all of us had that. My mother birthed me and didn't physically see me or touch me for 27 years until I did my search and reunion. Does that mean I'm broken? That I had a disadvantage in life, just because I didn't have that skin-to-skin contact? Well, not necessarily. I was placed in a foster home in a one-on-one situation. I was placed shortly after in my adoptive home here in Minnesota. I was raised as an only child. I had doting grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins. But they, at the same time, following the lead of the adoption agency, they say, "Shower your child in the culture you want them to have. They will forget about being Korean, it won't matter. They'll absorb whatever you tell them."
So people would ask me when I was a child, "Oh, where are you from?" And I'd say, "Oh, my family's German and I'm Korean American, but I really like sauerkraut." And I kind of just went along with it. I didn't realize that those questions were different forms of microaggressions.
Kari Haley:
Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about the microaggressions, because I feel like just even the example that you gave earlier, about asking where you're from, "No, where are you really from? But where are you from?" That in itself is a microaggression, and I think that people who aren't adopted don't necessarily think about that. Because for a lot of adoptees, home is various definitions, but for some adoptees, home is truly where they grew up with their adoptive parents. So when they hear those types of words, it can feel really bad, and way more than probably people even realize. Because a lot of times I do think people are not necessarily asking it in a trying to be malicious way most of the time, but it can really come off as being very damaging I think, and very personal for the adoptee. So how do you deal with those microaggressions? How do you talk to people about them, especially when you feel like it's coming not necessarily from that place of malice?
Nicole Wojowski:
I try to feel out what their intent is. My father's a really great example of someone who intends well, however, he comes off very uneasy. He'll see someone, he'll go, "Oh, where are you from?" And I say, "Dad, you can't say that. You really can't say that to people." And someone will say, "Oh, I'm from here." He goes, "Oh, my daughter's adopted from Korea. I'm just wondering if you are as well." And that opens up a very, very different tone of conversation. People are a little more understanding, more open to share when you understand they want to talk about adoption, and things you have in common, and not, "You're different. Let's highlight that."
Again, I put it back on the people asking the question. The ones who say to me, "Your English is fantastic." And I say, "I sure hope so. It's my only language. If it isn't, I don't know how I got to have a job."
Steven Jackson:
I get that sometimes... Well, I don't get it, my kids to do, but that's another story, sorry.
Nicole Wojowski:
I've found a lot of support with my friends, my husband, my chosen family a lot as well. My husband's an adoptee, I have a very close group of adoptee friends from around the Twin Cities here. In the early 2000s, when social media starting to become more popular, I met more adopted people. I didn't have a large resource of them growing up. I didn't go to Kamp Kimchee or Camp Choson or anything like that, so I didn't develop those relationships as a child. Now, as I'm older, I meet people with blended families, I meet people of mixed race with mixed race children. One of my closest friends, her daughter I consider my niece, and she's adorable. But it's finding other people that you don't have to explain yourself, that you can just let your guard down with and say, "Hey, today really was terrible. XYZ happened." And they just get it. Or you can say, "I had a really hard time. Let's talk about something happy. Let's watch cat videos, let's talk about food, let's do something else that we can all relate to."
Steven Jackson:
I'm a little conflicted only because I think there is a balance. And what I'll say by that is, I don't want people to ignore my differences so much that I'm not unique and they don't see me. But at the same time, I don't want you to accentuate my differences as to point me out and call me out. You know what I'm saying?
Nicole Wojowski:
Right.
Steven Jackson:
I think what you're saying highlights the divisive climate that we're in, for somebody to really... Not that good intent is even an excuse, because it's usually the impact that matters more than the intent. But I do think there are some well-intended people that ask, "Where are you from?" But then once I answer you, don't keep asking me, "No, no. Where are you really from?" There's a comedic video, there's a few of them out there-
Nicole Wojowski:
Yes.
Kari Haley:
I think I've seen that one.
Steven Jackson:
"No, but where are you from?" It's just interesting. I know I'm being educated here. What if we started to acknowledge that adoption starts with trauma? How would that change maybe the sensitivity that maybe there needs to be applied for those that have been adopted? If we realize that it's not always happy, or it's not entirely happy, there are aspects of it that are traumatic, how do you think things would change?
Nicole Wojowski:
I think it would help shift the focus away from the parents and their satisfaction with the exchange, for lack of better words, and focus more on the well-being of the child, or the young adult in our cases. One thing that, to me, has always been really, really important, I have a very, very hard time, about one month or so leading up to my birthday. I get very moody, I get very sad and introspective. And I say, "My mother at this time, she was feeling me move in the womb. She had this adoption plan. Then she tried to leave her home and she went to the clinic and said, 'I can't see the baby.' And said, 'I don't want to touch her. I don't want to see her. Please take her away.'.
And I think that on my birthday, that was the last time I had contact with her for a number of years. That she, now that I know more, she knew that she would very likely not have contact with me for the rest of my life. She had said if I wanted to come seek her out, she would gladly meet with me. However, she did not want to disrupt my life. She said that her and my birth father would never start that search to make contact with me. I have a lot of respect for that. I think that that's a very big decision as a mother. I don't have children of my own, but to say you invested your time and your wellbeing into a healthy pregnancy and delivering this child, that's a lot. That's a heavy burden.
So I think that if we could acknowledge that, that some children have a hard time with that, that some kids have a hard time saying even simple forms of affection. There's attachment issues if they were in an orphanage for a period of time. They don't have a lot of really close physical bonding as an infant. That may impact their ability to form relationships in the future. That doesn't mean that they can't, but sometimes being a little more patient with them and saying, "This is your own journey, this is your path. That's OK. We're along here on the ride for you."
The movie "Instant Family," to me, it was a healing thing to watch. At one point the teenage girl runs off and she says, "You're not my family." And the dad runs to her and he goes, "I know, but I love you and I'm here."
Steven Jackson:
I saw that movie. It was a good movie.
Nicole Wojowski:
He doesn't say we are your family, he doesn't try to correct her. He just wants to be supportive for what she needs and try to meet her where she's at. I think that was a beautiful thing.
Kari Haley:
Yeah, in the ideal world, it would be great if that was the experience of so many adoptees. I think one kind of, I guess, lucky-ish thing, I felt at least growing up, and now as an adult, that Minnesota actually has a very large-
Nicole Wojowski:
So many.
Kari Haley:
... Korean specifically, adopted population. So it is very nice to know as an adult you can seek out your other family, or your chosen family, whatever that may look like for you. Because I think that there's other adoptee... Korean adoptees went everywhere in the '70s and the '80s, and around the world. And that not necessarily everyone has that same situation where, it's just by chance that one of the major adoption agencies in the Midwest, a lot of Korean adoptees ended up coming to Minnesota, Wisconsin area.
Nicole Wojowski:
I did some research on this. There was a social worker from Korea. He came to the U.S. to do some of his graduate work, specifically in like the St. Paul, Wisconsin greater area. Because of that, he developed some very, very strong ties, was able to develop good lines of communication and trust. That's why there were so many Korean adoptees planted here in our area. Some of the online groups I'm part of, it's funny, it's like, "Oh, new member here. I'm from Minnesota. Are there any other adoptees?" And everyone jokes, "Oh, you're in the land of 10,000 cats." You can't really go any place without finding someone who knows or is related to a Korean adoptee, whether they realize it or not. My best friend, I didn't realize this, her best friend from high school is a Korean adoptee. It's never come up in conversation, but she was already familiar with some of the issues and things I don't talk about and whatnot.
Kari Haley:
Yeah, for better or worse, that is a nice piece that we have I think here in our area. What would you say to other adoptees out there who might not have that kind of safe home? Are there resources, are there groups that you've found that would be a good support system if you don't have it automatically where you're currently living?
Nicole Wojowski:
I would definitely reach out online. There's many, many, many resources. Some of them are further away. One of the resources I've found is Heritage Camp for adoptive families based out of Denver. I've volunteered with them for five years about now. I was an adult camp coordinator. I curated, for lack of better words, a group of adult adoptees, and we would have a roundtable discussion with the parents. As much as it was informative and learning for them, it was very much a learning process for me as well. I tried to get adoptees of different backgrounds, different ages, and things that they've learned in their journeys, as far as how far they are coming out of the fog, or if they choose to pursue a search and reunion.
I've learned so much. I've learned about people who don't want to necessarily search for their family, but still want to learn about their original culture, and that's something amazing. I've seen these families who say, "Oh my gosh, I don't know of all the troubles ahead. Please tell me. Please help me have the tools to support my child as they go through these teenage years, as they go through these young adults." And these things that they're asking, how do I answer them? How do I support them best?
I think it's amazing. I think there's a lot of really great resources out there. There's a lot of literature out there as well. Primal Wound is another one I hear tossed around a lot. I have not had a chance to read it. I think it's going to be a little triggering for myself, but I encourage people to seek out other resources online specifically.
Steven Jackson:
Are you able to share your story-
Nicole Wojowski:
Sure.
Steven Jackson:
... with reuniting with, I guess, your birth mom?
Nicole Wojowski:
I was 26 years old when I first started the search in January. Other personal events had led me to say, "Hey, I should do the search and reunion before it's too late. What if my parents are old and I never get the chance to, and I say, never coulda, shoulda, woulda? My friend and I from college actually, we realized we were set up for the same timeframe to go search and do a reunion. We were out for lunch and she got a call from the social worker saying, "We found your mom. We found your mom and she's willing to meet with you, but it has to be in secret." And I remember feeling guilt, feeling jealousy. I was very upset that she had found her birth mother, because she wasn't necessarily... That was not her primary goal. She really wanted to just go back, learn about the culture and whatnot. I however, wanted to find my birth mother and I had not heard anything at that point.
Fast-forward a week and a half or so and I get an email from my social worker. I'm at work, and she goes, "We've found your birth mother and your birth father." I said, "That's wild, that's great." I was told my birth mother and birth father met while at work at a factory, they had an affair, she was unable to care for me as a single mom and placed me for adoption. I know that's not true anymore. In the '80s it was illegal for married couples to place a child for adoption. So my parents were and are still married to each other. I found out I am not the product of an affair. I'm not an illegitimate child. I'm actually the youngest of four daughters.
At that point being 27, I went for two weeks with my parents here from Minnesota on a birth land tour as it was called by the adoption agency. We see different cultural things, historical things. Got to visit an orphanage, visit with what they call a mother's home, so mothers who are preparing to place their children for adoption who don't have any other place to stay. I threw a giant monkey wrench in how I was supposed to have this first meeting with my birth family. It was down in the coffee shop on accident. It was great and awful and tearful and all the things. It's quite the story.
Since then, I've gone back four additional times. I've gone back with my now husband. We went for my sister's wedding. She invited us back, which in itself is amazing. Her now husband, my brother-in-law, knows about me. His parents know about me, and they accept me, and they don't have a problem with that. It's a very taboo topic still. So much so, if I were to reclaim my citizenship and be placed back on the family registry, I could potentially cost my sisters opportunities at jobs-
Steven Jackson:
Really?
Nicole Wojowski:
... housing, education. Yeah.
So think of it like an asterisk behind your name on the family registry.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, sure.
Nicole Wojowski:
Hey, something happened here. Their family might not be of a great character, maybe don't invest in this person, kind of a situation. If my brother-in-law's family had found out about me and decided they did not support it, they could have called off the engagement. So for me to go back to this wedding and stand in line with the immediate family, and I look almost identical to two of my sisters, except they're significantly shorter than me. And to meet for the first time my maternal grandmother, I met cousins that didn't know I existed. And they go, "One, two, three. Who are you? Because there's only three daughters in this family, but you very clearly belong here."
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Nicole Wojowski:
They embraced me and that was something really amazing. I don't want to say unique. My story is fairly happy, but I have a lot of friends who don't have those stories. My husband, for example, he's been searching for almost a decade. He has his parents' names, but he can't find them. I don't know if the names are true or not. I don't know if the circumstances are true or not. He has no way of connecting to them. Two of my really good friends have really sad circumstances involving being forcibly taken from their homes. This is a fact of adoption in the '80s, unfortunately, in Korea. It was a very, very poor time in Korea, and I suspect that there was a lot of money exchanging hands that helped motivate some of these transactions.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Nicole Wojowski:
So having even that simple information of this is really my birthday? Am I really this age? Am I who I think I am? Until I did my reunion, I didn't have the whole nine months leading up to my birth. I didn't know what cravings my mom had, I didn't know what kind of dreams she had, I didn't know what happened when her water broke. Was there a panic to get her to the hospital or did she have the go bag ready to go? I don't have any of those details. I had a really great story of my dad picking up the photos from the adoption agency and showing them off to some friends before he got home to show my mom. Probably not his best decision. But that's my version of things, that's what I grew up with.
So it's very different for everyone, and I do want to highlight that just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong. Even the fact of a search and reunion, choosing to initiate that is the only control we have in our adoption story. We didn't choose to be placed for adoption, we didn't choose to be taken from our home country, we didn't choose to leave the sights and sounds and smells that we were ensconced with in-utero, but here we are, and we should be allowed to make of it what we can, when we're ready, and if we're ever ready.
Kari Haley:
I really appreciate your highlighting that each adoption journey is unique and that adoptees can take different paths. I think within the adoptee community really keeping that understanding of that, just because someone doesn't want to do something, or doesn't feel comfortable doing something, that that's their decision, and for adoptees to also be acknowledging of that, I think is really awesome. Because I think that it's really easy for other people to be like, "Well, my journey was this", or, "My journey was that. So this is what I think you should do." And I think we do that as humans in general, which just the tilt of adoption, that sometimes those well-meaning things can sometimes cause more discomfort or pain for somebody, when obviously people don't want to intend to do that necessarily.
So I really appreciate you mentioning that because, as our listeners, if there's other adoptees, your story is your story and I am so happy for you that you have, it sounds like, a relatively very happy story, in terms of your search and finding your birth mother, and your birth family, and the acceptance. Just other people, if it's triggering for them, just to know that it's OK if that's not your story. It's OK if it's not even something you want. I think that's really powerful as well.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that to our listeners that are out there who are saying what you're saying. My story is not like that. It doesn't sound like that.
I mean, wow, this is just very powerful for me personally. And I'm not adopted, and I haven't adopted anyone. It reminds me of my story with regards to my dad, which I won't go into now. But it's just a lot of questions, and the what ifs, and all the things, as we say. I'm just very appreciative of you being vulnerable and sharing your story. It's very meaningful for us and for our listeners.
I guess, before we close, if you can take a minute to just speak to somebody out there who is an adoptee, who didn't have that happy story, or doesn't have a happy story, any words of encouragement for them?
Nicole Wojowski:
To an adoptee out there who, if they're unsure of themselves, or unsure where to start, or if they want to start, I just want to say, you are not alone. There are people here, you are not the first or the last, we are here to support you. You are enough, and whatever your choice is, that's OK, that's good. There's no wrong choice in your own story, as far as if you choose to pursue things, you want to embrace whatever cultures, that's OK. And you should feel confident that you're doing what's good for you.
Kari Haley:
Well, thank you again. Like Steve said, adoption stories are very vulnerable stories, I think, so I really appreciate you putting your story out there, for sharing it with us. I think having this conversation and starting this conversation is really important, because the adoptee community doesn't get talked about very much, and I think it's really important that we do. Because obviously, in Minnesota we have a lot of adoptees. And that's just Korean adoptees, there are so many other international and domestic adoptees that are out there, and you might not even know. Just knowing that it's such a large community and that oftentimes it's brushed to the side, or the trials and tribulations of adoptees aren't necessarily put on the forefront, that it's important that we have these conversations and that people like you are able to be vulnerable about it, to be able to open up the conversation. So thank you, thank you so much for being here.
Nicole Wojowski:
Thank you for having me.
Steven Jackson:
"Off the Charts" is a production of HealthPartners and Park Nicollet.
Kari Haley:
It is recorded by Jimmy Bellamy, with creative by Peggy Arnson, Tina Long, Tim Myers and Jeff Jondahl.
Steven Jackson:
Production services provided by Matriarch Digital Media.
Kari Haley:
Our theme music is by Ryan Ike.