Members of Regions Hospital’s Surgical Services Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee join the show’s first-ever recording in front of a live audience inside the hospital auditorium in St. Paul, Minnesota. Laura Barnes, Drea Bauer, Meghan Gowan and Nick Hommez share how the group got its start, its initiatives and activities and the importance of workplaces recognizing DEI within their own teams.
Members of Regions Hospital’s Surgical Services Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee join the show’s first-ever recording in front of a live audience inside the hospital auditorium in St. Paul, Minnesota. Laura Barnes, Drea Bauer, Meghan Gowan and Nick Hommez share how the group got its start, its initiatives and activities and the importance of workplaces recognizing DEI within their own teams.
Hosts: Kari Haley, MD, and Steven Jackson, MD
Guests: Laura Barnes, Drea Bauer, Meghan Gowan and Nick Hommez
HealthPartners website: Off the Charts podcast
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Kari Haley:
He's a rehab doctor from Chicago.
Steven Jackson:
She's an emergency medicine doctor from the Twin Cities.
Kari Haley:
Together we're examining the health equity emergency.
Steven Jackson:
Inviting voices for change without the cue cards.
Kari Haley:
I'm Dr. Kari Haley.
Steven Jackson:
I'm Dr. Steven Jackson.
Both, together:
And this is Off the Charts.
Steven Jackson:
Today we're going to be having an important conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion. Go figure, right? But now we're going to talk specifically about our anti-racism teams, particularly in the surgical services department. So we have guests and members of the Regions Surgical Services, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee.
So as I call them up one by one, don't be shy. Put these two things together and make some noise. First we have Laura Barnes. Welcome, Laura, welcome. We have Nick Hommez. Then we have Drea Bauer. And last but definitely not least, Meghan Gowan.
Kari Haley:
All right, guys, thank you so much for being here and your group. I think just to kick things off and start, let's hear a little bit more about who you are, what your group is, and a little bit of the history behind it.
Laura Barnes:
So I'm Laura. I am a CRNA at Regions. So we are the Regions Surgical Services Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee. We're made up of certified registered nurse anesthetists (CRNAs), registered nurses, certified surgical technologists and anesthesia technologists. But we are looking to expand our group to the sterile processing department, surgical aids, and surgical care assistants.
We believe that including everybody is important because it's important to have an inclusive work environment and focus on collaboration. So specifically I'm a CRNA. Again, that's a certified registered nurse anesthetist. So I'm an advanced practice nurse who does anesthesia in the hospital.
Nick Hommez:
And when you started talking about expanding our group, I thought you were going to mention how we're hiring here at Regions Hospital. Anybody on air is listening wants to come work with us, come find us.
My name is Nick Hommez. I'm the anesthesia manager at Regions Hospital. I manage over about 60 CRNAs that work within our departments and at the surgery center across the way. We also employ CRNAs there as well. So I get to work with Laura every day, which is pretty awesome. I started as a CRNA in the operating room as a nurse anesthetist and I've risen up to the manager level as of March of this year. So excited about that new role and very excited about where this committee has taken us over the last few years.
Drea Bauer:
I'm Drea. I'm a certified surgical technologist. Basically what we do in the OR is we make sure all the equipment's there, supplies, instrumentation and we set up every surgical case for every doctor and then we maintain the sterile field and then assist the surgeons. So we're like in there with them.
Steven Jackson:
I remember being a surgical intern and I met some pretty scary surgical nurses. I knew my place when I was a young doctor, so thank you, Drea.
Meghan Gowan:
I'm Meghan. I'm a registered nurse in the pre-op and post-op area. Depending on the day or where the patients are, either I work pre-op and get patients prepared for surgery, make sure their lab work's done, that they're all teed up, that they've done their prep that they're supposed to do, and provide a lot of emotional support before going in. And then on the post-op side, ABCs, making sure their airway's doing OK right after they come out right from anesthesia, a lot of pain management, managing vital signs, and providing interventions as needed.
Steven Jackson:
That is awesome.
Meghan Gowan:
Yep.
Steven Jackson:
So this is obviously an important group. We want to talk about the important work that you guys do and even why a group such as this one is important, but how did you guys get started?
Nick Hommez:
I can start with that one, but it was during the height of that pandemic in 2021 when all of us were feeling even more isolated from each other and we were recovering from the events happening with George Floyd. The hospital gave us an initiative to expand a diversity, equity, inclusion committee within surgical services.
So myself along with Melauna Estrada, who's here today, we came together and we created this committee and pulled in members from different specialties. And from across the street we had our surgery center with Julie Yang there. And so we had different team members. Tommy Reed was part of it as well. So we had a really collaborative effort with a lot of different people.
We started by talking about issues that were important to us, what was happening around the hospital and around the city and state. And we just kind of went from there. We wanted to educate people about what was going on with our lives and our different things in our cultures. And we did that through a series of different media like posters and bulletin boards. And one thing we wanted to do was presentations.
So right here in this auditorium we had a presentation by Tommy Reed. He gave us a wonderful presentation about transgender care for our patients here at the hospital, the history of transgender population and how to incorporate different care techniques within our daily practice, things involving Epic. And it was wonderful. It was just a really eyeopening presentation. We appreciated that. Tommy. And he talked also about the political landscape, what's going on in the country and how important it is to learn about everybody around you. So it was really eyeopening. We really appreciated that.
The next presentation we had up was Jo Angela Amores. She was a registered nurse and educator within our department that gained her nursing degree in the Philippines. And then she talked about her history of how she got her nursing degree and moved to the United States and what a process and how hard that was. It was really amazing. And we got to eat some really delicious Filipino food that day, too. So brought in some food from Apoy, a Filipino restaurant.
Laura Barnes:
Our group really likes food and so many of our objectives are food-motivated.
Nick Hommez:
Exactly. And we went--
Steven Jackson:
Obviously.
Nick Hommez:
It must be late, I don't know. Yeah, then we went with food and then we went to Midtown Global Marketplace in Minneapolis as a big group event. And we learned about how to make Moroccan food and Moroccan flavors. It was phenomenal. We got to really practice how to make food and eat the food obviously.
Laura Barnes:
We actually made the food ourselves and had a big interactive--
Nick Hommez:
Demonstration.
Laura Barnes:
It was a lot of fun.
Nick Hommez:
Yeah. And then last but not least, the last event we went to was at Bole restaurant in St. Paul, an Ethiopian restaurant. So if you haven't been there yet, just--
Laura Barnes:
Very good.
Nick Hommez:
Wait until the podcast is over now, but then go. It's really good. But we found that just through gathering around food just brought people together and just opened up so many more conversations. Those have been some of our big initiatives that we've done over the last couple years.
Kari Haley:
Those are awesome. I love all of the connections with the food. It's definitely important. When you've been doing these events, have you felt like your committee has been growing now that you've been going on for a year? Has the word been spreading? And how have you been doing then, how have you been successful with it?
Laura Barnes:
So we have a newsletter that we send out and then we include pictures of the events we're doing. And the more smiles, the more people come in more and more. Like our outing to Bole got a lot of people because it's food and it was an easy way to attract people into the group. And a lot of those people have stayed on with the group.
Even down to we had someone... So we have a big bulletin board that we change every month to talk about different DEI things in the community and whatnot. And there was a person interviewing for a position in Regions and they recognized the board and were like, "Oh, this is so cool." So it's even people beyond our group that are liking it.
Meghan Gowan:
This is how personal, we brought our kids to Bole and started getting our kids involved. And they felt like they were part of a traveling food group, they decided by the end. So I think that's been good, too, kind of even spreading to our families. We're trendsetters.
Laura Barnes:
Well, your kid ordered a whole fish. A whole fish. And he had so much fun with it.
Meghan Gowan:
Deboned it.
Laura Barnes:
He deboned it and then he was putting it all back together. And it was just cool because that's not a typical American dish.
Meghan Gowan:
No.
Laura Barnes:
So it was fun. And the younger you get involved with that, the more that's normalized.
Steven Jackson:
Normal.
Laura Barnes:
Yeah.
Kari Haley:
Making it normal.
Steven Jackson:
I love it. Well, we all have to eat, right?
Kari Haley:
Yes.
Laura Barnes:
Yeah.
Steven Jackson:
So why not learn about diversity, equity, inclusion around some good food, even if it's a big fish. So I think that's great. What I like about what I'm hearing is what you said, Laura, about we're kind of redefining normal. We talked about that in other episodes, where normal may not be steak and potatoes, normal might be whatever you guys ate or wherever you went. And I think it takes bravery, it takes courage, it takes stepping outside of your comfort zone to grow. You're not going to grow if you just do the familiar, say the familiar, you talk to the familiar. Sometimes you got to put yourself out there to learn. You realize that, yeah, there is other things out there to learn and to do.
Laura Barnes:
And that's what a couple people were really excited about with our going out to different restaurants. That we were finding that people were like, "I want to try a different cuisine but I don't know what to try and I don't want to go by myself because I don't want to be embarrassed or say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing." And so having a group that is safe and you can make the wrong move and it'll be OK has been really helpful.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, and that's something that we've talked about too in general, just the concept of messing up good. In other words, having that grace and having that safe space. Because you're going to say things wrong, but that's why we have safe spaces. That's why we have people that support us and care about us that will gently correct us and educate us and not beat us down, at least not in public. I think that's great what you guys are doing.
I'm curious to know about any of the challenges. Talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion isn't always easy, even for whether you're a subject matter expert or somebody who does it all the time. Sometimes it can be nerve-racking. You don't want to say the wrong thing, again. So any challenges or any stories?
Laura Barnes:
Well, one of the challenges was our interpreter services. You want to talk about that?
Meghan Gowan:
Yeah. So before COVID, I think it was, we would often bring an interpreter into the OR. They could get a bunny suit or whatever. But then COVID hits and then that's more PPE use, that's more risk to infection. And so that got taken away. And so unfortunately, non-English speakers they were prepped by the OR team in pre-op saying, "This is what we're going to do. X, Y, Z." And that works if they're awake and attentive and not too anxious to hear what is going on.
And they're being moved into a different environment and not knowing it and not understanding what's going on. And so we were trying to figure out a way to, "How can we still have an interpreter in there, but we're not allowed to have a person?" So we had come up with this idea that we're like, "Oh, my gosh, we'll make these index cards with sayings on them and the CRNA can read it. And we'll work with interpreter services and they can tell us all the words to put down on these cards and then we'll be able or hold them up for them."
So then we have a meeting with interpreter services and that was very quickly shot down. And it was one of those moments where it was like we were so excited for this and then it was like, "That's not going to work." And we were, "Oh, OK." And then he went on to explain about how language isn't necessarily transferred into writing, spoken language into writing, the way that we think it does with English, there's tone and inflection.
But there just was many, many reasons that this was not going to work. And so he's like, "Well, do you have phones in the room?" I'm like, "Yeah, we could call the language line but they're still back on the wall. We're trying to hear the patient. That might not work." And then he brought up getting an iPad. And I think we at first were like, "Pfft." We always hear about budget and I don't know who's going to approve buying us another iPad. Because we do have two. We have one that we use in the pre-op area and one in the post-op area. And they're used frequently, especially on off shifts.
But he set us up with his budget guy and they looked at how often and how many minutes were used on the iPads we currently have. And said, "Yeah, you guys have been using these plenty. You should have used it enough that you can get a third one." And then we worked with infection control and got that approval to keep it back in the OR.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Meghan Gowan:
So it worked out. It was just never at all how we had envisioned it.
Laura Barnes:
And it was completely worth it.
Meghan Gowan:
Yeah.
Laura Barnes:
I have used it a lot with C-sections. We have a very diverse population in this area and I had, specifically, one woman I can remember. She was Spanish speaking and my Spanish is very minimal. It kind of ends at hola. So this patient came into the room and I was able to talk with her through this iPad and tell her what was going on and really decrease her anxiety, because the dad doesn't come back at the very beginning of a C-section. And I was able to find out throughout the whole thing, "Are you in pain? Are you just a little anxious? How can I help you? What can I talk you through so that this is the most positive experience possible?"
Kari Haley:
Those are huge. We have those in the emergency department too. And I feel like especially if you get the actual video interpreter, not just the audio interpreter, it can make a world of difference. And it's far less painful, I feel, for both the patient and you because you can actually see faces with the video one, you can see facial expressions, interpretations of things, and they can help see that on the patient too to help you interpret those things.
Do you feel that in your space that this is something that has made a big difference for also you as providers and your patients?
Laura Barnes:
Absolutely.
Nick Hommez:
Oh, yeah.
Laura Barnes:
We can find out things just low as, like I said, if you're in pain, but I can also chat about your medical history. It's very challenging to ask someone about, "Do you have MH," or other very obscure things if I can't ask you, "Has anybody had a high temperature during anesthesia?" And just simple things where it's easier to translate that and actually get an accurate representation.
Steven Jackson:
When we were talking in pre-production, we talked about the concept of shifting our culture and how we serve in a diverse population and people have different needs and one of the definitions of equity is giving people what they need so they can be successful, whatever that successful context is. In this case obviously a successful C-section, right? Or surgery, et cetera.
And that culture shift takes place when me as a physician, I go and I see that this patient that I'm about to see needs an interpreter, me not having an attitude about that or me not having that thought of, "Gosh, I have a lot of patients. Now I have to go find an interpreter or now I have to go find an iPad."
We have some people that I've worked with a lot on this. We talk often about embedding equity into what we do and not being extra and not being just a topic every now and again at a department meeting, but it be embedded in everything that we do to the point where it affects our attitudes and our mindset not just our actions too. I'm not going to call out somebody in the audience, but we talk about the different levels of whether it's minimalization to acceptance to... And I probably messed it up. So talk to me after.
Kari Haley:
Or listen to our episode.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, go back and listen to the episode. That'll be Sidney (Van Dyke). Sidney, everybody. Give it up. All right, so I guess I want to ask, why is a group like this important? Tell the audience. And to the naysayers out there that say, "Oh, we don't need groups like that. Treat people like people and it'll be OK." Why is this important?
Meghan Gowan:
Well, just coming off of the iPad, I'll say without having the interpreter, it's very basic. I feel like I'm not able to be personable with somebody. It's very just putting the blood pressure on. Just very quick, brief. Or if the interpreter could have only come for five minutes. Until we had those iPads or the ability, I actually can laugh with a patient now and have a conversation or even change the subject of the exact medical situation that's happening. Because often we see people when they're having their worst day and then to not have that ability to communicate and be just human with them.
Laura Barnes:
You're humanizing. That's the [inaudible 00:19:00].
Meghan Gowan:
Yeah, and just be normal. Let's just talk about work, talk about kids. "What did your wild kid do today?" I feel like I can do that. Even if it's a person on the iPad, you can get them laughing and communicating. And without that, I feel like it's just very dry. And you don't want to be, but... Yeah, it makes it a lot harder. And then I feel like I'm not giving my best and they're not getting the best from what the hospital has to offer when we don't utilize those things.
Laura Barnes:
And even beyond patients, there's a really big correlation with DEI in the workplace and better employee engagement, retention, and productivity. Our employees want you to know about them and their culture and what they're celebrating and what's important to them. And that's one of the things our group really focuses on, both on that bulletin board and in the newsletter, is what are the different holidays? We're more familiar with the typical holidays that we all celebrate, but it's fun to talk about Ramadan and other other holidays and different functions that people in our community are excited about and our coworkers are excited about.
Nick Hommez:
When you were talking about equity a minute ago, it made me think about one of the biggest things we serve is just to allow those differences to come out and to provide a format for people to come to us with questions. And so that we're celebrating all those differences, which I feel like is emblematic of what equity means, is that you're learning about everybody around you so we can all be on the same level of understanding, which is so important with equity. And I feel like our committee has... We're just still young and still growing with it all, but I feel like the word is getting out more about the committee itself and people are more and more interested and more comfortable with coming and talking to us about anything that's on their minds.
Kari Haley:
Do you have any thoughts for other groups out there who haven't yet formed their own community, or there's maybe one or two people that are interested but not fully engaged with the rest of their department? Any recommendations to get the ball rolling, get things started? How do you get that engagement within your own service?
Laura Barnes:
Well, that's how our group started was one or two people who were excited and wanted to do it. And as you do fun activities and entice people into the group, whether that's food or fun activity or something, people will come. This group has already expanded. Even since January we've added four new members. So starting at one or two people is enough to start.
Nick Hommez:
Just be persistent. Doesn't have to be anything big.
Meghan Gowan:
Yeah, it has. There's been meetings where it's just been a handful of us.
Nick Hommez:
Yeah.
Meghan Gowan:
It might be a few of us at dinner, or at whatever, and then all of a sudden people showed up at the restaurants that we weren't even expecting. I think just being persistent and that, I don't know, staying true to like, "I still believe in this and think it's important." And also show up.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, I think that's awesome. And I know I've been a beneficiary of working with different groups around the organization. Shout out to PFS, patient financial services. It's just been awesome just to see people passionate and engaged. And movements start with one or two people, like you said. And I think sometimes... Jim, you probably can explain this better than I can, but when you think about the iPhone, you have those that stand in line in the rain the day before it comes out. You have those that still have an iPhone eight. Don't raise your hand if you're one of them. The early adopters and you have those that kind of lag behind.
And I say that to say we often talk about, Toweya (Brown-Ochs), our chief diversity officer, she talks about how we're all on that moving sidewalk. And you have that lane where people stand. You have the lane where people walk. Some people are running because they're late. Some people are actually walking on the carpet. They don't want to even be on the sidewalk. But either way, we're all trying to go in the same direction.
And let's see, where was I going with that? Oh, yeah, we're all in different areas of the journey, but either way the need is there. The need is there for, things I'm hearing already is connection. Without the iPad interpreter, without the in-person interpreter, there's a good chance that our interactions can be transactional. Like I give you $10, you give me my change back. That's a transaction. As opposed to, "How was your day?" Or, "Are you comfortable?" Or, "How was that wild kid today? How did school go?" Those kinds of things. That's what people walk away remembering. They might not remember that technical word you used to talk about their procedure, but like Maya Angelou said, they'll never forget how you made them feel. And I think this is what we're talking about.
Any aha moments, not only with the group but maybe even any experience that you guys have had that have caused you to grow in a different way?
Laura Barnes:
This is lightly outside of the group, but I'm involved in scrubs camps, which is a initiative by the Minnesota State Health Force Center for Excellence. I go to middle schools and high schools to talk to people about becoming CRNAs, because a lot of people have no idea what a CRNA is or what they do or how to get to that spot in your life.
And one of my aha moments is I bring a mannequin, so the kids can all intubate the mannequin, so put a breathing tube down. And they can see if the breathing tube went into the lungs or it went into the stomach. And it's always trying to get that first person. It's like, "Please somebody do it." And then the first person does it and everybody wants to do it. So it's kind of that aha moment of people... You just got to get people involved and they will like it.
Nick Hommez:
I'll say as far as engaging other people to be part of your committee, my aha moments are like when I see certain people that have that kind of spark and you just need to sometimes approach them and say, "Hey, maybe you'd want to be part of this committee and I think you'd do a good job on this committee. Do you have any interest?" And so sometimes people are interested, but they just need that little bit of push. So then you see somebody that steps up and then takes over as the committee chair and it's being just like, "Aha, did it." So that's been pretty exciting.
Steven Jackson:
I think you also see people that like to sit back and observe. Because it's real. Obviously, a lot of our increase in conversations regarding diversity, equity, inclusion, stem from a lot of tragedies. George Floyd obviously is a huge one, but there are others. There are a lot of names to mention, a list of senseless deaths, I should say. But, wow, this is popular now. We're talking about DEI a lot.
And some are waiting for it to die down. And I'm just here to tell you it's not going to die down. If you're waiting for it, it's too bad. It's not going to die down, because honestly, this is where we have always needed to be. There were some unfortunate events that perhaps woke us all up and led us to where we need to be, but I'm so glad that we're able to have conversations today that maybe we wouldn't have been able to have three or four years ago. I don't know about you all, but I'm getting more comfortable with the uncomfortable. And again, I think that's where we need to be. That's how we change. We change, I think, with discomfort more so than comfort.
Laura Barnes:
That's some of the beauty of that scrubs camp. They specifically try to get underrepresented, underserved communities into those scrub camps. And so they're hoping that these students choose careers in health care so that we do diversify health care. Because when you go into health care, you want to see somebody who looks like you, who understands your situation and you can talk to them about that. And this is the positive of talking with these students young is they hopefully will diversify our lives and our workforces.
Kari Haley:
We've talked a lot on our podcast too about trust. It's been a huge theme. I'd love to hear a little bit more about, maybe from each one of you, how you have built building trust into your practice and into your group. Because expanding a DEI group, getting initiatives started, all requires trust from your own members and from the people that you're trying to give the service to. So parting words.
Meghan Gowan:
Honestly, I feel like I've actually gotten closer to people that I never would've interacted with as much, like would be more just in passing. And it is a comfort level of knowing that we think alike, we feel alike, I feel safe with you. I'm a pretty loud, forward person. I don't really hide how I feel, but it is nice to know there are people who aren't. And so I guess I feel like at least I've created a safe space and then I've met other people that I didn't know cared as passionately about this stuff. I've joined and just we've all gotten closer and it's been really fun for me, honestly.
Drea Bauer:
I just think, of course we're getting to know each other and just showing other people in our department that we can support each other and no matter our differences, we can still communicate and work on it. I might disagree with someone else, but then you might be a whole thinking, "OK, I like how you think," versus, "I think about it this way." And so I think it's just really showing that we can all be a team and still, I guess, enjoy what we do.
Laura Barnes:
Absolutely.
Nick Hommez:
And I think as far as building trust in other people, it starts with learning each other's names and greeting them in the hallways every day and just starting that relationship up early. So I think about talking with Tommy or Jo Angela about doing their presentations. They were putting their trust in the DEI committee that we would allow them to give this presentation in a safe space, that they would be able to talk to people and really tell their story. And that's the point where you hope to get with people, is that they'll trust in you that you won't let them down. And so I think that's the biggest thing that this committee is also helping is instilling trust amongst everybody else.
Laura Barnes:
So anesthesia is unique in that most of the time that I spend with a patient, they're unconscious and they're not going to remember. So I really have that three to five minutes at the beginning before I help start the anesthesia that I get to connect with them. And it's important that I am able to connect to any group of people, to help them feel as calm as possible. And that's, I think, one of the cool parts of this committee is I get to chat with them about different events that are coming up and just making them feel comfortable.
Steven Jackson:
I like, Nick, what you said about knowing a person's name. How often have you guys heard, "I'm not going to even attempt to say that." And it's a joke and it's fun, but it might not be fun for the person. This is their name. They've had this name for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And so try it. If you mess up, you mess up. Try it though. It shows that you care about them as a person. Let's talk about a person wants to be known, and heard, and supported, and protected. And that first interaction, "Hey, mister... Oh, I'm not going to try that." That might not be a good start. So that might be something to think about.
Nick Hommez:
And don't be afraid to ask again. So many times I introduce myself to somebody, then a month goes by and I see them again. And I've tried to get better at saying, "I know we've introduced each other before, but can you tell me your name again?" And they said, "I forgot your name too." And I think it goes both ways.
Steven Jackson:
"Hey, you."
Nick Hommez:
And nobody really cares.
Kari Haley:
I guess, thanks for being here and thanks for all the support that you've been giving us over the last year. It's been so good to have such great feedback from everybody. To know that you're listening, to know that we're saying things that maybe change a little bit of your thought, it just blows my mind honestly. And I love that we're all here and that there's things that might even come from being here all together, which is super cool.
Steven Jackson:
I'm seeing some kind of outdoor event with food and maybe with softball or volleyball or something. So much you can do. I feel like I'm just so thankful for this opportunity that, like (podcast producer) Jimmy (Bellamy) always says, "I get to do this."
Kari Haley:
Yeah, amazing.
Steven Jackson:
This is work and I get to do this. This is cool. And I ask for your ongoing support to spread the word, spread the love, spread the message, and let's keep it going, let's keep moving the needle, because we have a great opportunity to do so. Thank you guys so much.
Off the Charts is a production of HealthPartners and Park Nicollet.
Kari Haley:
It is recorded by Jimmy Bellamy, with Creative by Peggy Arnson, Tina Long, Tim Myers and Jeff Jondahl.
Steven Jackson:
Production services provided by Matriarch Digital Media.
Kari Haley:
Our theme music is by Ryan Ike.