Xiongmee Chang shares how mentorship and unwavering belief inspired her to accomplish goals and take on roles previously unimagined. The Regions Hospital nurse manager joined the Hmong Nurses Association board of directors in 2024 and helped plan HNA’s second National Nursing Conference after being encouraged by her mentor to attend the first one.
Xiongmee Chang shares how mentorship and unwavering belief inspired her to accomplish goals and take on roles previously unimagined. The Regions Hospital nurse manager joined the Hmong Nurses Association board of directors in 2024 and helped plan HNA’s second National Nursing Conference after being encouraged by her mentor to attend the first one.
Hosts: Kari Haley, MD, and Steven Jackson, MD
Guest: Xiongmee Chang
HealthPartners website: Off the Charts podcast
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Kari Haley:
He's a rehab doctor from Chicago.
Steven Jackson:
She's an emergency medicine doctor from the Twin Cities.
Kari Haley:
Together, we're examining the health equity emergency.
Steven Jackson:
Inviting voices for change without the cue cards.
Kari Haley:
I'm Dr. Kari Haley.
Steven Jackson:
I'm Dr. Steven Jackson.
Both, together:
And this is "Off the Charts."
Steven Jackson:
Welcome to our show. We're very excited and honored to have with us today, Xiongmee Chang, who's a nurse manager at Regions Hospital. As of today's recording, I'm pleased to announce that Xiongmee, our guest today was named Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal's 40 Under 40 honoree. And today, we just want to get to know her and her experience, her journey. I think all of our listeners will be inspired and excited to hear about where you're coming from and where you're going. Welcome.
Xiongmee Chang:
Thank you, it's an honor.
Kari Haley:
What is your favorite thing that you're doing right now?
Xiongmee Chang:
I have been with Regions, I just celebrated my 16-year anniversary here.
Steven Jackson:
Woo-hoo.
Xiongmee Chang:
I started working here as a nursing assistant, and prior to that I did investments at the bank. And I initially went to college for pre-med, and then nursing was plan C for me. I had told myself if I couldn't get into med school to be a pediatrician, I would go into a PA school, and then if I couldn't do that, I would go and be a nurse.
Along the way came my beautiful 18-year-old daughter that switched my whole life around to change my path to plan C. We skipped plan B and went straight to plan C. I thought I would try nursing assistant to make sure that it was something I really wanted to do. Growing up, I didn't want to be a nurse. I didn't want to be in health care, because I was the oldest grandchild. I always had to go to the doctor's appointment to interpret for my family, and I hated doing that. It was so uncomfortable having to ask my grandma if she was still sexually active and I was just like-
Steven Jackson:
Oh, man, that's tough.
Xiongmee Chang:
I don't even know how to ask that.
Kari Haley:
Like, "No, I don't want to know that about Grandma."
Steven Jackson:
How do you ask that?
Xiongmee Chang:
Well, I did ask her and I said, "I don't think she is because my grandpa doesn't live here." And I remember she laughed and she hit me and she's like, "Why did you ask me that?" And I said, "The doctor asked me to ask you." From that, I was like, I never want to go into health care. And I thought I wanted be an elementary school teacher. I was like, this would be really fun to teach little kids. Well, I'm glad I didn't do that because it's challenging. My kids are challenging, so I'm glad I didn't go that route.
Kari Haley:
Yeah, imagine 5-year-olds that are multiplied by 20.
Xiongmee Chang:
Yes, yep. So yeah, so I started working here as a nursing assistant back in 2009, and that just really confirmed my decision to switch from investment to health care. I did nursing, I was in nursing school while I worked here, and then when I finished nursing school I became a nurse and Patsy Reed, who had worked here at the time as a nurse manager, she was here for 35 years. And after becoming a nurse, she said I should be a charge nurse. And I said, "Absolutely not." I don't want to be the captain of the ship. A charge nurse is someone who kind of oversees the whole unit. They oversee the flow of the unit, patients that are coming in, patients that are leaving, they can oversee all the nurses or the nursing assistants. They're pretty much the captain of the ship. It's like, I don't want to do, I don't put myself in that position, and I don't trust myself.
So she said, "You're going to be a charge nurse," and I said, "OK, I'm going to be a charge nurse." So I did that, and then COVID happened and I said, "You know what? My kids are distance learning, what else can I do?" And I applied to Capella University and started the master's program a month after that. Then I decided that I needed to finish in 10 months because my kids are going back to in-person learning. So then I sat down one day with my kids and I said, "Every night we're going to do homework together," and-
Steven Jackson:
That's how you do it.
Kari Haley:
Group project.
Xiongmee Chang:
Yep, so every night we did homework in the dinner table, and I had a baby during COVID, so there were some nights where I was holding the baby doing my homework at the same time, and I was like, I must be done by October because at that time, Capella also had a front line discount and then Regions offers the tuition reimbursement also. So, out of pocket I paid $25 for my master's program.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Kari Haley:
Amazing, that's amazing.
Xiongmee Chang:
And that's why I had to be done in 10 months.
Steven Jackson:
That's incentive though, $25.
Kari Haley:
Oh, wow. To get through that?
Xiongmee Chang:
Yeah.
Kari Haley:
In 10 months, that's really, really impressive.
Xiongmee Chang:
Yeah, but being a manager was not something I thought I would want to do. Putting myself in that position where you were in between 100 staff members and then upper leadership. And when Patsy was retiring, she had the conversation with me and I said, "I don't want to do that." And she said, "Well, you stayed for a reason," because going back to when I started nursing, I had this dream of working Monday to Friday, 8 to 5, no weekends, no holidays. And I took this job at a GI clinic. And I came to Patsy and resigned and she denied my resignation and she said, "You're not quitting." So I said, "Well, I took a new job." And she's like, "Well call them back, tell them you're not quitting." So I said, "OK, well I have my resignation letter." And she's like, "OK," and she tossed it into the recycling and she said, "You're not quitting." And I said, "OK, I guess I'm not quitting."
So I stayed. And so she said, "You stayed for a reason," and she's like, "It's your time to shine." So I decided to apply for that position and that's where I am today.
Kari Haley:
And here you are.
Xiongmee Chang:
Here I am.
Steven Jackson:
So, obviously you have a journey and you started off with a certain direction in mind and ended up kind of doing what you said you wouldn't do. What were some of the challenges along the way? I know you kind of mentioned going to school, obviously raising young kids, new kids at that. But what are some of the challenges that stand out in your mind that make you sort of appreciate how far you've come?
Xiongmee Chang:
So, I'm the first generation in my family to go to college, and I think I read this book called The Latehomecomer by Kao Kalia, and it was a narrative of her grandma of their journey to America. And even though I knew my family's journey to America, it made me appreciate my grandma and my mother even more, because I was a very rebellious 16-year-old who thought I knew everything.
Steven Jackson:
No, I can't imagine that.
Xiongmee Chang:
And after reading that book, I felt so bad. And then I just said, it's true. My mom brought me here to America for a better opportunity, because, so my father served in the Secret War, which I don't know if you guys know about the CIA war that happened in 1975, but-
Steven Jackson:
I'm not familiar.
Xiongmee Chang:
So, my father fought in that war and after America pulled out my dad along with hundreds of Hmong men fled to the mountains to make that their new home because they were no longer able to live normal because they had sided with the Americans during that war. And so my mother and I were in prison for two years when I was two months old to two years old, to replace my father with the Lao communists. And so, my mom used to always refer back to that when I was 16. She would say, "If I knew you weren't going to listen to me or if you were going to be rebellious, I would've left you in Loas." And I used to say, "Why didn't you? I never asked you to bring me here."
Steven Jackson:
Oh, my gosh.
Xiongmee Chang:
And after I read the book, I was like, oh, my gosh. And I was 19 when I read that book and I said, "I'm so sorry, Grandma. I'm so sorry, Mom. I take back everything that I've said to you guys." And then listened to the story of coming to America, it really pushed me to work harder and make better decisions.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Xiongmee Chang:
And be a role model for all the younger kids.
Kari Haley:
Yeah, I was going to say, maybe a segue into that, it sounds like Patsy was quite the role model and quite a person to look up to. A big personality it sounds like, just by what you're describing here. How has it been making that transition from being that mentee of no, you're not quitting, and really getting your path helped carved by someone else to now you're in this leadership position with the Hmong Nurses Association. What is it like now being a mentor and you're entering that part of your career and that transition piece?
Xiongmee Chang:
Sure, I'm still learning how to mentor others, but I've been really inspired, and Patsy has done a really great job at mentoring me and many of the nurses and nursing assistants in our unit, but it's a great feeling to be able to provide resources to people who reach out to you.
Just the other day, I had somebody who said, "Can you look at my resume? I graduated back in May of 2024 and I just can't find a job." And looking at resume, I just said, "Hey, it looks like you used to work here and here, but it looks like you're job hopping, and I'm really honest, so don't take it personal." So I was like, "Did you leave in a bad note? Because this can be red flags." And I said, "Let's talk more about this," and this person was like, "I appreciate your honesty because people have looked at my resume and they're like, 'Oh, it looks fine.' " And so it has been rewarding to be able to mentor others and it's a good feeling when people said, "Hey, you were my nursing instructor," because I also teach for Rasmussen. And they're like, "You inspire me to want to be even more than just a nurse."
Steven Jackson:
How was that carried over into your applying to be a part of the Hmong Nurses Association? And I guess, why did you apply? How did you apply? What was that process like? And then, what are some of the learnings thus far through your experience?
Xiongmee Chang:
I thought I was really busy, that I had a lot going on and I would not have time to do any community work. When Dr. Haitham Hussein was here, we did a lot of free blood pressure checks and blood sugar checks and stroke education to the Hmong community. And when I saw the opening for one of the board director seats for HNA, I was like, "I'm not going to do it. I don't have time." And I had fill out the application and then I changed my mind and my brother sent me a message and said, "Hey, look, this is perfect for you." And then I kind of ignored it and I had two friends who sent me a message and then I had another friend who tagged me and I was like, this is calling your name, so.
Steven Jackson:
Couldn't get away from it.
Xiongmee Chang:
I said, OK, and then I was telling myself, all right, what am I going to do this year that I would, out of my comfort zone? And I'm like, I don't know if I can lead HNA. And then I said, I'm just going to do it. So I did. I hit the send button and then they interviewed me and I told them, "I really don't know what this position is and what am I supposed to do, and what are the qualifications and what the responsibilities of this?" And they kind of went over it and I was telling them that I feel like here I am selling agro's to fundraise, and here they are on a whole another level of writing grants for nonprofit organization. I felt like I wasn't up to that level. And they really did appreciate my honesty and said that they would really like to select me, even though I was very honest with not knowing what I was supposed to do, what the role consists of. But it has been an amazing experience.
I went to the first conference here in Minnesota at St. Thomas and Regions actually sponsored, was one of the sponsors for that conference, and Patsy was the one who told me to go. She took me off that day and said I should go. And I went and the dean of the science program had said, her quote was, "I come as one but stand as 10,000," and that kind of stuck in my head and I felt so inspired, like I feel like I have so much more to accomplish. This is not it for me. Bedside nursing is not it, there's going to be more for me. So, that was the first conference that I went to.
And so when I joined HNA, we hosted a second conference last year in Sacramento, and they had asked me to be on the planning committee. So we all these Zoom meetings and you had a picture of Sac State and all their ballrooms and buildings in your head, and kind of figure out where every meeting was going to happen. And then they said, "Hey, how about you help host this youth summit for kids who want to be a nurse or maybe interested?" And I was like, "Oh, OK. That's kind of above my skill level, but I could probably help do that."
Steven Jackson:
How did it go?
Xiongmee Chang:
It was such a success. We were like, maybe 15 kids would want to be come, be interested. We had 50 applicants.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Kari Haley:
Wow.
Steven Jackson:
And we accommodated 25 and then five more wanted to come, and so we made room for five more. But the college was amazing, they let us use the simulation center-
Kari Haley:
Wow.
Steven Jackson:
... and we were able to, had the kids... kids, they're actually between eight and 18 years old, to listen to lung sounds and heart sounds, and they had a lot of good questions. And we had kids who were 13 years old who said, "So, what should I do now so I could be a nurse?"
Kari Haley:
That's amazing.
Xiongmee Chang:
I was like, "Go to school."
Steven Jackson:
I am inspired.
Xiongmee Chang:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
This is amazing.
Kari Haley:
I love how you just kind of nonchalantly walk yourself into all these really amazing positions, but I think that means that it's not actually nonchalant. It means that you're doing something that people are paying attention to and are connecting with, because otherwise you would not be just walking into all of these things.
What kind of lessons have you learned about yourself, pushing yourself the way that you are and doing these new things that are outside your comfort zone?
Xiongmee Chang:
Well, as I reflect back to it, I wanted to be a teacher when I was in high school. Well, I am a teacher. I'm leading the neurosurgery department. I'm teaching at Rasmussen. I coach my son's track team, and this year I'm going to learn how to be an official for my daughter's swimming team. So, whatever I wanted to be when I was little, I am now. Whatever I didn't want to be, I am now. And I've told my kids that, "You could be anything that you want to be, but you got to put 100% effort into it."
But I've also learned how much patience I have, teaching nursing students, coaching these six-year-old kids who couldn't sit still for more than three seconds. And then I've also learned to give myself some grace and also appreciate myself that I am more than what I think I am. And I do give back to the community and I need to give back to myself a little bit too, because I do do a lot. And how do I give back to myself? That's like me reflecting, it's feeling accomplished that everything that you felt you couldn't do, you're doing it.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, I want to highlight what you just said, how I am more than what I think I am. I think that's a message not only for those that are sitting at this table, but for everyone listening, as far as this reach is with our podcast. People need to hear that because I can tell you a lot of stories of voices, whether they're external voices telling me, "Your path is going to be hard, you should consider doing something else," to my own voice saying, "This is going to be hard, maybe I've barked up the wrong tree or bitten off more than I can chew." Insert cliche.
But just hearing your story, it just sort of confirms and reaffirms, so to speak, that yeah, the journey wasn't promised to be easy and if you're looking for easy, you might be looking in the wrong place. But if you stick to it and if in the midst of doubting yourself, you just keep going, doors tend to open, and I think you're just a living example of how doors have just flown open for you, man. You're a person who, well, I don't know if I can do that. I don't know, that's above my skill level. And now you're, I mean, you gave us a list of things that you're currently doing and I thought I was busy.
Kari Haley:
Those are just current.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, current, and you're thriving. It's awesome. It's awesome.
Xiongmee Chang:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
What would be your message to someone who is maybe looking to be a nurse and even beyond a career choice, just looking to do something that they feel is too hard? Or maybe people have told them, "You shouldn't do that because it's above your skill level or you don't have the experience or the qualifications." What would you say to those people listening now?
Xiongmee Chang:
Well, I always tell my kids, especially my 18-year-old who's in college right now going for nursing, "Nothing worth doing is ever easy." And when I was in nursing school, I was a single mother and I never saw my daughter, and not as much as I thought I would see her, but I knew that I was doing it for the right reasons. And then I'm like, look at us now, we're not where we were and it was all worth it. But you would be surprised at what you're capable of doing. I mean, I never thought I would want to be in a nonprofit organization hosting conferences. I never thought I would be on stage talking to hundreds of people during these conferences, and then I did, even though I was shaking. So, you would be surprised, and it's just, trust your guts and just go for it. I mean, nothing is ever perfect and it's never an easy journey, but you learn every time you take that leap.
Kari Haley:
That's a really good, I feel like that's just such a good mission for absolutely everybody. There's always an excuse for not doing it, and that's OK to take that excuse sometimes. But it sounds like for me, listening to your story, we try to really not take that excuse and just believe in yourself and to just try, because the worst that can happen is that it doesn't work out. In your brain that's what apparently, you think it, you thought anyway. So, you might as well give it a go because there's not much less worse things that can happen from that. So, I really appreciate that you have put yourself out there and it sounds like you're just doing really amazing things, and it's so cool that you work at our organization.
Xiongmee Chang:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
Your respect meter has gone way up. I mean, it was already up, don't get me wrong. Everybody listening like, what is he talking about? No, but just hearing your story, I mean, it's so inspiring. I mean, inspiration doesn't even give it justice. I mean, it's beyond inspiring, but just these types of stories really resonate with me personally because I've kind of gone through to some degree, some of what you have, in terms of fighting the doubt and fighting the odds and the statistics and all these different things. Coming from where I come from and the things that we didn't have growing, all these things on paper that tell you, yeah, you're only going to do so much and you just got to squash that. And like you say, you just got to go for it. What do you have to lose, right?
Xiongmee Chang:
Right, yeah. I mean, it wasn't perfect and everything I've done didn't just turn out perfect. I've hit many roadblocks along the way, but it was a learning experience and it was more of like, OK, what could I do better next time?
Kari Haley:
That sounds like a mic drop sort of way to end things. I mean, it's so great to hear the story of somebody who keeps pushing, keeps trying, despite the setbacks, but then you reap some of the rewards. You are doing really, really amazing things and getting to be a mentor for lots of people, both inside of nursing, outside of nursing, I'm sure as well.
Xiongmee Chang:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. I'm just sitting here thinking as we close up, I feel like our stories aren't just our stories, because you sharing your story is actually you planting seeds that eventually will sprout fruit in someone else's life. So, we just thank you for sharing, and I know our listeners are really just appreciative of your story and just thankful for all the people you're touching that you don't even know you're touching. And trust me, you are, and I'm looking forward to the next project that you're going to be involved in.
Xiongmee Chang:
Well, thank you. Thanks for letting me share my story. I mean, it's great to hear that others find me inspiring. It actually makes me feel so honored and it surprises me. And then I get to brag a little bit to my daughter that I am kind of cool.
Steven Jackson:
Yes, you are.
Kari Haley:
Yes.
Steven Jackson:
Beyond cool.
Kari Haley:
Teenage coolness surpasses all.
Well, thank you again so much for being on the podcast, sharing your story, being a beacon of inspiration for other people and other listeners here. For sure, both Steve and I.
Steven Jackson:
Absolutely.
Xiongmee Chang:
Thank you.
Steven Jackson:
Thanks so much.
"Off the Charts" is a production of HealthPartners and Park Nicollet.
Kari Haley:
It is recorded by Jimmy Bellamy, with creative by Peggy Arnson, Tina Long, Tim Myers and Jeff Jondahl.
Steven Jackson:
Production service is provided by Matriarch Digital Media.
Kari Haley:
Our theme music is by Ryan Ike.