Health and well-being create a perspective that activates the way the world engages with us. Activities that are nature-based, happen outdoors and have an element of adventure lead to self-discovery, connection to the environment and building communities. Anthony Taylor, of the Metropolitan Parks and Open Space Commission, shares how riding his bike through Minneapolis one day during college led to a lifelong journey of health, wellness and education centered on nature, outdoors and adventure. Much of Taylor’s work has been dedicated to connecting communities of color to movement and the outdoors.
Health and well-being create a perspective that activates the way the world engages with us. Activities that are nature-based, happen outdoors and have an element of adventure lead to self-discovery, connection to the environment and building communities.
Anthony Taylor, of the Metropolitan Parks and Open Space Commission, shares how riding his bike through Minneapolis one day during college led to a lifelong journey of health, wellness and education centered on nature, outdoors and adventure. Much of Taylor’s work has been dedicated to connecting communities of color to movement and the outdoors.
Hosts: Kari Haley, MD, and Steven Jackson, MD
Guest: Anthony Taylor
HealthPartners website: Off the Charts podcast
Got an idea? Have thoughts to share? We want to hear from you. Email us at offthecharts@healthpartners.com.
Kari Haley:
He's a rehab doctor from Chicago.
Steven Jackson:
She's an emergency medicine doctor from the Twin Cities.
Kari Haley:
Together, we're examining the health equity emergency.
Steven Jackson:
Inviting voices for change without the cue cards.
Kari Haley:
I'm Dr. Kari Haley.
Steven Jackson:
I'm Dr. Steven Jackson.
Both, together:
And this is Off the Charts.
Steven Jackson:
Welcome back to our show. We, again, just want to thank all of our listeners and subscribers for following and tuning in when you do and today, you are in for a treat. We have Mr. Anthony Taylor in the studio with us and we're going to be talking a lot about a lot.
First, I want to just introduce him by telling you some of the hats that he wears, so here we go. Buckle up. Metropolitan Council commissioner for Metropolitan Parks and Open Space Commission. He's a member of the League of American Bicyclists, LAB, Equity Advisory Board. He's the vice president of the National Brotherhood of Cyclists, host and radio personality for KMOJ-FM, and he's the founder and director of strategic initiatives for Major Taylor Bicycling Club of Minnesota. Wow. Somebody pass me the water. That's awesome, man. So welcome.
Anthony Taylor:
It's exciting to be here and exciting to talk about living well.
Steven Jackson:
So where does your passion come from when it comes to health and wellness?
Anthony Taylor:
A lot of the passion, just one, I think it's always a gift to get old because I really do, I just know for sure and people have heard "youth is wasted on the young" and all these different sayings, but I do think that there is a perspective. You live long enough and you get perspective on stuff that you didn't value at 20 or 30 or 40 or 50, and so a lot of my passion has really come from, one, I started doing unusual things early, I think, but what I realized early on is that really, health, your health, just your health and your wellbeing and just the relationships in life creates this perspective that actually activates the way that the world engages with you. I don't know if that makes sense or not.
Steven Jackson:
That does make sense.
Kari Haley:
Mm-hmm.
Steven Jackson:
And I'm looking at a lot of the hats that you wear and obviously, you're involved in the community, you're a radio personality. I mean, obviously, you are engaged and what that says to me is that you're committed. Was there a life-changing event in your life or even a collection of them over time that just has you locked in to, "This is my space, this is where I need to make impact."
Anthony Taylor:
Well, and you know what else? I think the Major Taylor Bicycling Club, and I'm a co-founder of Major Taylor Bicycling Club and I think that my relationship, I have an elder, Louis Moore, who is just really been seminal in my life. He is... Louis must be, he's got to be 80-plus years old right now and he could ride 50 miles tomorrow but I met him when I was 18 years old.
Steven Jackson:
I feel bad all of a sudden.
Anthony Taylor:
And really, the life-changing event probably was that my 18-year-old ego got me to come to the University of Minnesota because I wanted to play football and major in engineering. So I didn't want to go to [the University of Wisconsin] Stout or a small school. I thought, my 18-year-old self would say, "You can do Big Ten." But the life-altering experience really was being on the scout team and anybody who knows that experience, running the other teams' plays and trying to major in engineering and I quit.
Another name some people know, Kent Foxworth, a great U of M player, said, "Dude, you need to quit. You're going to school for real." And I did. And when I quit, I realized I had nothing to do. I only knew how to work out or train or be on a team and so I literally started biking to a health club in downtown Minneapolis from the U because the university student services were nothing like they are today.
And I started biking to this health club on Eighth and Nicollet to work out and I was biking because that was the most efficient way to do it. And one day, I didn't stop to go work out, I just stayed on a bike ride and then that bike ride turned into me discovering the city so differently. That was really the seminal... I was on this bike ride, leaving the U of M campus. Because that was the universe, right?
Kari Haley:
Yes.
Anthony Taylor:
And then I was downtown and then next thing I knew, I was on the Chain of Lakes riding past Bde Maka Ska and then I had to figure my way home and it was a whole different city and that was seminal for me and I think even now, when I talk about biking, I'm really committed to the fact that what the bike does is that it takes you out of that teleportation device called a car and then all of a sudden, it connects your energy to where you're going, it puts you in community. You know what I mean?
It's just really amazing and I think that the joke I make about people who actually bike is that cyclists know the texture of the road in the neighborhoods they ride through. That's how intimate the relationship is. They literally know the texture of the road and that kind of relationship to a city really makes a huge difference and that was a beginning for me, and then as I dug into it, other things came from there.
Kari Haley:
That's really powerful and I mean, I am not a cyclist, but just hearing your passion behind that makes me want to jump on a bike and go cycling.
Steven Jackson:
It's contagious.
Kari Haley:
Where have you found that continued passion? I mean, this is something that you have done for years now. How do you not get stuck in a rut? Or how do you get yourself out of that rut if it does happen?
Anthony Taylor:
It really has always... I think the key, and I really do believe this, that the goal of all of these activities has always been building community. And I think that that's also a really big shift in terms of our approach. I think that generally, anything people get involved in, they typically use this very American approach as it's now a sport.
And as soon as it becomes a sport, then it becomes full of judgment, it becomes full of "you are only the best day you ever had in your life". You know what I mean? There's a way that you start approaching it and you miss the opportunity of regular revelation. You know what I mean?
And I think that's really critical and I think that, so the activities that I've been engaged in and I think cycling is one example of that and anything, and I think I've grown, anything that is nature-based, happens outdoors and has an element of adventure, creates this opportunity where the ultimate goals are really around self-discovery, connection to the environment around you, it's about building community.
And once you start building community, it really is this really interesting spiral and this kind of inertia. It actually creates an inertia that keeps you from stopping, whereas most of the time, we're working on the inertia that keeps you still. And that's really what I think I've found over a lifetime is that it's always been about building community.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, and I definitely want to get to building community because that's a very important area of talk in and of itself, but when you think about the actual activity, the activity of bike riding, nowadays, it's 2022. People are on their phones, they're on their tablets, they're on Instagram and Facebook. What have been, if any, have been challenges in getting this message across that, "Hey, you need to hop on a bike and connect with your surroundings as opposed to coming out of cyberspace liking and disliking texts or posts or..." Sorry, kids. My kids might be listening to this episode. Go ahead.
Anthony Taylor:
Well, you know what I think? Maybe sometimes the best thing to do is almost to ask someone what would be a really cool outcome for them, I think. Because sometimes, even telling someone that you bike, people start judging it right away. No, they do. It doesn't even matter, right?
It's just like you go, "Well, I bike." And then what happens is that they start that spiral of one, protecting themselves, right? Because no one wants to fail. Two is they start judging themselves. Again, you know what I mean? And then, all of a sudden, they go, "Well..." And then they disqualify themselves and then you walk away.
So it's sometimes a better strategy to actually think about what would have value for you as an outcome? I mean, I don't know what it would be and it comes different things, but the biking becomes a delivery vehicle, if you will, for that particular outcome and I think that that really is a much better place to start, because like I said, I think that as soon as you say "cycling," whatever that stirs up for people is a challenge and I am willing to say that most people have had some negative experience with a bike. A high number of people have had some, right?
Steven Jackson:
I know I have.
Kari Haley:
Yeah, I can think of one for myself for sure.
Steven Jackson:
Interesting. Yeah, I like what you're saying about... Because honestly, we're talking about health and we'll get to health and definitely health equity, but as physicians, we often, when we sit down with patients when it's not emergent, Dr. Haley, and talk about goals, we talk about, "Well, what is it that you want to accomplish on this visit or in addressing fill in the blank? What is it that you see in the next year, the next few months?"
And so I think that's very similar because now it gets us to thinking about, "Well, what is it I want to do? Or what are my goals? Where do I want to go?" And it takes the edge off of whatever the negative connotation is with cycling. Again, cycling just becomes a vehicle, not the thing that I'm scared of and now I'm going to judge myself, but I can focus on the goal and cycling might be a way to get there. So that's awesome.
Anthony Taylor:
Even as you talk about goals, like I said, just, sometimes people just over... Because a goal has to be lofty. A goal has to be performance-oriented. It has to be... You know what I mean? It's like there's a way where we think about it that way and I think it's really... I'm always coming from that perspective sometimes and I'm going to tell you, it really has helped me be a better guide for people to find their way, and I'm not even to biking, but to movement generally. And I think it requires us to keep stepping back enough so that we can actually have some empathy for the reality of where people are living.
I just really have found that to be true and I've never met a physician, never ever met a physician who says, "I have a really good idea. Eat really bad food. Move less. Ignore your medication." You know what I mean? No one ever says that. What I find, over time, is even for you, you get beat down some days by the fact that people are so committed to whatever the other thing is. You know what I mean? And it's just been interesting to find that to be the case with community members and our health care providers and our social support agencies and you know what I mean? That that happens sometimes. So I think even the idea of asking someone about, "How much do they move?" Instead of, "Do you work out?"
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. See, that changes the mindset. It changes up the perspective like you said.
Anthony Taylor:
And that's what we're trying to do is to get people to envision themselves being successful. I mean, it's just like that's... I don't know if you all are big Grit fans, but remember Angela Duckworth and her work on grit and resilience? I mean, some of you listening. One of the things that I think is really cool about that work was that the definition she used for grit was the idea of coming up against a challenge and being able to imagine yourself being successful in the challenge. I just think that is a really big idea, and what that is based on is a history of coming up against things and being successful. So it's all in the imagination, and I think that, unfortunately, many, many people have enough life lessons. Right?
Kari Haley:
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony Taylor:
Right? They're just practical life lessons that you know what? You might not be successful. And sometimes that's really... That's what I mean. Some of our work is to do that and you have to pose this possibility that when they hear you, they go, "I could be successful at that." And that is the first step, just imagining themselves being successful, then we can start supplying support or connection or whatever comes next, but it just really is that piece of it is what I've started to figure out is maybe that's the inspiration, right? That we have to help people with.
Kari Haley:
I love that. And I mean, I'm thinking about we, as physicians, do this kind of equity within the walls of the hospital. We think about it within our metrics, within our outcomes. And what you're doing is really taking that outside into the communities and trying... But I think a lot of the lessons are the same thing, so some of our listeners are practicing physicians or other health care providers. Do you have thoughts on how we can navigate that inspiration within the confines of a wall of medicine and bringing that freedom of the outdoors inside?
Anthony Taylor:
I don't know, but what I will say, though, is that the first point for me is that I have to see you as a partner. I do think that there's a way where there are lots of people that I'll call practitioners that are in community, they're doing things but they don't really always see the health care community as real partners in it.
And so however we can do that, however we can bridge that gap is really critical, because again, in exploring the possibility of the fact that you see people at vulnerable and regular times over a lifetime and it changes over time and I think I've learned that well-checks before five happen a lot, right?
Kari Haley:
Yes.
Anthony Taylor:
Prenatal, I mean, if you think about that trajectory of time. Before the mother has a baby, there's a lot of contact. Lot of contact, lot of contact, lot of contact. After the mother has the baby, there's a lot of contact, lot of contact with the mother and the baby. So that's a really vulnerable and important time and highly prioritized time for the mother, but we don't turn that into a highly prioritized for the family, you know what I'm saying?
Steven Jackson:
Yeah.
Anthony Taylor:
Because we got her or we got him. And the father's more engaged now, right? The parents are engaged in just the kind of traditional gendered family, right? And so, again, I think about that time and then there's a lot of contact up until pre-K, until five and then we start losing contact. I mean, I know there's still visits, but you know what I mean? It starts to change and I think, "What if all of the people that begin to be more seminal, more regular and see it as a partnership and we're able to work together?" Because I think...
Anyway, you understand what I'm saying? I think there's ways where that could be informed differently and I don't think we don't do that very well, and that's what I'm starting to think about and I think, in one of the examples that I shared getting ready for this was the issue of swimming. We talked about the idea of swimming and that African American children, Indigenous children, immigrant children swim at significantly lower levels than white middle class families, that there are significantly higher levels of drowning. Those kind of things.
Steven Jackson:
Yes, sir.
Anthony Taylor:
And so the way that I've really started thinking about it is that, well, what if instead of saying we need to offer swim lessons for free, we had a relationship with a practitioner that is seeing the young people a lot between zero and five and we were actually able to offer that as a developmental milestone for families? That active living, what if we said active living also has developmental milestones? Maybe that's a really good way to think about it and that active living has developmental milestones related to biking and walking and running and swimming and all these things, and so when you have that intense time of contact with the family, then, as a practitioner, you're able to turn to me and I'm able to step into their life and offer them those opportunities for developmental trajectory for learning to bike and to swim and to run and to... You know what I mean?
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. And see, I think you bring up a great point and what I'm thinking, so I'm hearing what you say about partnership because as long as I see you as a patient with a diagnosis, I think the partnership that we can have is going to be limited. We talk a lot about trust on our podcast and I think trust occurs when you go beyond your diagnosis and I'm going to provide the treatment to a relationship and with relationship comes partnership.
So I think once you get that squared away, or at least maybe change the goals a little bit, change the perspective, we're developing a relationship built on trust because that's our vision for HealthPartners. Now you can cultivate a partnership which will open up conversations about things like the swimming and the active lifestyle.
Because now, Anthony, what you're talking about now is affecting culture. In some households and in some cultures or the culture of a household, "We don't touch fast food, we work out." Or, I'm sorry, "We move or we bike. That's just what we do. It's not a hassle because I've been doing it since what you say? Zero to 5." So it's become ingrained in the culture. But for some of us, I wasn't raised in that. I wasn't raised in, "You got to work out or you got to do this, you got to do that." No, I mean, mom worked late and sometimes we had [fast food] for dinner because she picked me up from wherever and we got home.
So how do you reconcile some of, maybe, the disparity, dare I say, even in this space that we're talking about?
Anthony Taylor:
What happens is this. This is what I think about happens is that I don't think we pay attention to the emotional connections that are connected to [fast food]. I mean, because the truth of the matter is almost no one eats [fast food] seven days a week, actually. It is always positioned as a reward, a benefit, a something. It's really... So what happens is we make these emotional connections around this that are really interesting.
So I will say immigrant families. I think that we totally do not understand that the value of American-ness is highly valued in immigrant children and [fast food] represents that.
Steven Jackson:
Interesting.
Anthony Taylor:
So what happens is you now start eating that which, and I'm just going to... Listen, I have no proof of this, so is everybody listening? This is not HealthPartners research, this is just Anthony speaking, that we start to see increase obesity issues around... The ill effects that we see in all communities, in immigrant communities, as they stay here longer, there's increase because I'm telling you, I just see this thing where the young people value this. They eat out. It's a convenient thing. There's food everywhere.
The bigger part of our culture that we have to be actually concerned about is we have a culture that supports consumption and you can consume everywhere. That the reward of highly marketed food, highly fast food is so high that we wind up in this thing where we devalue the homemade meal. But honestly, Dr. Jackson, what you're talking about is the home where they create a value for home-cooked meals.
Steven Jackson:
Yes.
Anthony Taylor:
They still do it together. It is something that there's deep participation in. That's what we're talking about is the way we create value and there is that we as Americans are under continuous assault by the markets that want us to consume, and the ugly part is they know the hole in our heart.
They connect those things to the hole in our heart and we can't walk away from it. And the issue with technology is that they really do. They are masters of understanding how to make us not look away, to make us come back to feed, that... And so, I mean, this is you are in trouble because marketers don't play.
Steven Jackson:
No. They're coming relentlessly.
Anthony Taylor:
They are coming relentlessly.
Steven Jackson:
Yes.
Anthony Taylor:
And they have the vehicle to come relentlessly in the hands of the person that you are actually trying to support. And I think we don't talk about it to that depth of, really, seriousness, that that is really our work. I mean, that really is our work and it's just really deep for us and so that's even why we have to partner more deeply because you don't have the time to dig into those emotional connections. You need me as a partner because I can work with the fam, I'm seeing them enough to reestablish different positive emotional connections. Right?
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. I love it. I love it.
Anthony Taylor:
And the trusted relationship is really interesting because it is a handoff where we are really in partnership and the trusted relationship, it also goes back and forth because guess what happens is that the trust of the established medical community goes up because you're always a partner with me.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah, who's out there already.
Anthony Taylor:
Who's out there already.
Kari Haley:
Invisible and not in the walls of the hospital or the clinic.
Anthony Taylor:
That's right. That's exactly right.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. One of your titles, Anthony, is senior vice president of Equity Outdoors for YMCA North. So what is the connection and what has been your experience with the connection between moving and fitness and health and wellness, and equity? How are they related?
Anthony Taylor:
Well, you know what else? So I'm not with the YMCA anymore, but it was really an important couple years of my life because it was really developmental in that I had been working with them for years around the idea of increasing utilization of their amazing world-class facilities outdoors by more communities of color and low-to-moderate-income families. And the connection is that, and this is the way I talk about it, if you and I were sitting on... We were talking about Theodore Wirth earlier, so plug for the trailhead at Theodore Wirth.
Kari Haley:
That's a good one.
Anthony Taylor:
If we were sitting at Theodore Wirth, you and I, having a cup of coffee and we saw a mountain biker pull up and the mountain biker... And mountain bikers are covered from head to toe often. They have gloves on, goggles on, hat on. All you see is gear and a bike. If I was going to give you a thousand dollars to predict that biker's gender, what would you pick?
Steven Jackson:
Putting me on the spot, male.
Anthony Taylor:
Absolutely.
Kari Haley:
Yeah.
Anthony Taylor:
If you were going to pick that cyclist's ethnicity, race or ethnicity, what would you pick?
Steven Jackson:
White.
Anthony Taylor:
And if you were going to pick that person's median household income, $75,000 or more, or $75,000 or less?
Steven Jackson:
More.
Kari Haley:
More.
Anthony Taylor:
More. Exactly. If you were going to pick that person's education?
Steven Jackson:
College or higher, probably.
Anthony Taylor:
College or higher. So that's an example.
Steven Jackson:
Interesting.
Anthony Taylor:
Right? So with certainty, this is the part that's messed up, with certainty, if you're going to get a thousand dollars, that's what you would pick. What we want to work towards and what the YMCA was working towards is we want to literally remove the ability to predict who's on a trail system, in a canoe, choosing camping as an option, based on race, ethnicity or gender.
What else are we trying to do? We're actually... The connection to equity is we're trying to remove the ability of who is suffering from diabetes, cardiovascular disease, extreme COVID response, based on race, ethnicity, gender and income. It is literally the same thing and that's what is the move. You know what I mean? That's the connection.
And in a community like the Twin Cities where we make significant investment in outdoors, right?
Kari Haley:
Yeah.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah.
Anthony Taylor:
We want all of our community to realize the benefits of it. We want all of our community to realize the benefits of it. So therefore we have to increase access to outdoors as a strategy for family development, youth development, health improvement. Right? That's really what we're talking about, right?
So that's the connection with equity. And simultaneously, and I really believe this with all that I have, is that outdoors, nature-based programs where adventure is the goal are the greatest space for human development that we have and we are not utilizing it enough. We're not presenting it enough to families, we're not presenting it enough to people broadly and the outcomes are really significant and I think that's really the connection.
Steven Jackson:
We had a recent episode where we talked about challenging the construct of what's deemed normal and I feel like we're running up against that theme here as well because it didn't take me long to give those answers. That was a knee-jerk response because in my mind, because I'm subject to it too, that's normal. I didn't say, maybe to my ever-loving shame, I didn't say "Black male, high school diploma." I mean, I just had my answers prepared because it's kind of in the fabric of who we are societally.
And I just think that your message, conversations like this, where we're bringing it in Season 2, we're really uncovering some things here because what should be normal is that everybody has equal access to be healthy, whether that looks like having the access to the equipment, to bike, the gear to bike, access to doctor's appointments, whether it's transportation, whether it's whatever it is. And that's essentially what you're saying as it relates to equity, that it should be normal for us all to be successful given the context in which we're here.
Kari Haley:
Yep. And I love the removal of the competition of it too, so removing that from the equation and making it truly about the experience and your health rather than being number one, getting the best time because that's not going to necessarily lead to that lifestyle change or that cultural change.
Steven Jackson:
That's right.
Kari Haley:
Because it's competition.
Anthony Taylor:
And the other thing that we have to accept, it's really hard for us to accept the fact that literally the way that we've built our system around sport as a fundamental way for people to move is something like 80% to 90% of people are excluded by eighth grade by design. By design.
If a high school sport is the way that you will play that next level, everybody's cut already. And that's built into it. So now how do you move? You know what I mean? With just movement. And that's what I mean by outdoors, nature-adventure-based programs are always non-competitive. They're always personal best experiences. You're always looking at personal best. You're always building in reflection. Reflection on the experience you had is really critical to seeing success. The outcomes are really monumental. I think that this is where I'm saying the outcomes, you all work with families all the time, right?
Kari Haley:
Mm-hmm.
Steven Jackson:
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Taylor:
How many of your families come to you and say, "I'm worried about my daughter's body image"?
Steven Jackson:
I don't know if I get that often.
Kari Haley:
Mm-mm.
Anthony Taylor:
How many families, if you're listening, that is everyone's concern when their daughter turns 11, 12.
Steven Jackson:
Wow.
Anthony Taylor:
You see what I'm saying? And so what I know is the greatest vehicle for creating diverse acceptance of different body types is actually outdoors. So again, now we're tying outdoors activity to something that matters to families and has high value for them. And that's something I see all the time when we talk about that. That's a different connection of what has value for a family, and then the activity, which that's not sport. It's not competitive. It's really about a human developmental outcome that has value for self-concept over a lifetime.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah.
Kari Haley:
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Taylor:
Right?
Steven Jackson:
Mm-hmm.
Kari Haley:
Yes, absolutely.
Anthony Taylor:
So those are the things I think that we can do with the nature, outdoors and adventure. We want to build collaborative, empathetic young people. That is an outcome of us taking a trip where the only way we get there is if everybody gets there. The only way we get there... Right? You know what I mean?
Steven Jackson:
I love it.
Anthony Taylor:
And those are life trajectories. I really mean that. And I think that's, again, that's where I think we, as outdoor advocates, as people who are committed to active living, we have to be a better partner so that we're tying to those solutions that matter to you as you're working over a lifetime to just create wellbeing for communities.
Kari Haley:
Mm-hmm.
Steven Jackson:
Mm-hmm. Wow. So first, I want to say thank you, first of all, for countless messages that I'm just going to be chewing on. This will be one of those episodes that I'll replay in my own car.
Kari Haley:
Yeah. Multiple times.
Steven Jackson:
My own... What is it? My teleporting vehicle? What'd you call it?
Anthony Taylor:
Teleportation.
Steven Jackson:
My teleportation means here. But things that really stand out to me today are the need for partnership. For this to be sustainable, it can't be one person, it can't be 10, it has to be all of us and I think... And there's so much that was said today. The other thing that really stands out to me as well is that you said something along the lines of, "We design an activity that it's almost like you're not successful unless we're all successful. Or it's designed that..." You probably have to say it again, but something like, "At the end of the day, we're successful because we all got there." And I just think that's sort of what we're trying to do here with our podcast, these are the messages that we're trying to promote that at the end of the day, a lot of us, most of us, maybe all of us, we want similar things and our success is dependent on us helping each other. Not always competing, not always backstabbing or judging, but...
Kari Haley:
It's not zero sums, as we said in a previous episode.
Steven Jackson:
Yeah. It's not. And yeah, lot to think about, lot of work to do.
Kari Haley:
Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on today. I mean, I'm speechless because I feel like a lot of the things that you said, there's just so many thoughts and ideas going on in my head now because I think it makes complete sense about that merger. We can't be healthy just by going to the doctor. We can't expect health in our lives by doing our yearly checkup or for us, as physicians or providers, to see a patient once or twice in a 10-year period. It has to be outside of the walls, it has to be together, because sometimes you need both. You need both the movement and you maybe need some help too if you have a disease that requires some medications or monitoring and that going forward in the future, that a partnership is something that I think our patients and the community itself would be hugely benefit from.
Anthony Taylor:
Well, and you know that I really use the example of the prenatal as a beginning. I do believe that that's an important time. I'm just using them because I do think there's a moment, that's an interesting moment, where we value my relationship to you more highly than maybe the rest of life until we have something seriously wrong. You know what I mean?
It's like, what if we're anchoring the relationship in possibly the most positive time of my life and moving it forward, and then for us, as practitioners, we have to also begin to acknowledge you as a partner, to really acknowledge health care systems as a potential delivery system for... That's the thing for me that's a shift is, again, that that's really the end goal that we have is the same, and Dr. Jackson, that's what I'm saying and you said it exactly right. We all have similar goals, but it's not zero sum in terms of, "My answer is the answer. You're not the answer." And we set up this binary relationship, right? That's also very cultural for us, right?
Kari Haley:
Yes.
Anthony Taylor:
It's not zero sum. We really have a lifelong partnership of keeping people active, inspired, connected. Connectedness is actually the ultimate measure of health.
Steven Jackson:
Well, we got to bring you back sometime and next time, we're going to have a long list of solutions, because again, you would've fixed it all and we appreciate you fixing it.
Anthony Taylor:
I don't have examples of effort.
Kari Haley:
We'll envision it.
Steven Jackson:
We appreciate it.
Anthony Taylor:
All right, well, thank you all.
Steven Jackson:
Thanks so much for your time.
Kari Haley:
Thank you so much.
Steven Jackson:
Off the Charts is a production of HealthPartners and Park Nicollet.
Kari Haley:
It is recorded by Jimmy Bellamy, with creative by Peggy Arnson, Tina Long, Tim Myers and Jeff Jondahl.
Steven Jackson:
Production services provided by Matriarch Digital Media.
Kari Haley:
Our theme music is by Ryan Ike.